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Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays

From "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays
Date 2011-04-12 20:52 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <io2710$1hr$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <io0bnr$dph$1@dont-email.me> <4da47fb0$0$25624$cc2e38e6@news.uslec.net> <io22nf$fm4$1@dont-email.me> <5t39q65tcht5bc7h7cuasnl4qeu0sqpqc5@4ax.com>

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* cg_chas, on 12.04.2011 20:15:
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 19:38:53 +0200, "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet"
> <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> * Noah Roberts, on 12.04.2011 18:37:
>>> On 4/11/2011 7:00 PM, Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> The second way in which a pointer can point to an array, is the answer
>>>> to question 3, namely
>>>>
>>>> int a[42];
>>>> int* p2 = a; // OK, p2 is a pointer to an array (dynamically).
>>>>
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>> That's silly (see below).
>>
>>
>>> The p2 variable is a pointer to int because an int is what you get when you
>>> dereference it.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>
>>>> 3) And a pointer of type T* be said to point to an array of T, but only
>>>> in the dynamic sense, like "right now it points to an array".
>>>
>>>
>>> The other important part of pointers is that when the point to elements of an
>>> array, you can perform math on them. This fact though does not change what type
>>> you get when you dereference the pointer. To claim that a pointer points at
>>> anything other than what you get when you dereference it flies in the face of
>>> the concept of "pointer".
>>
>> Here is one counter-example to your claim:
>>
>>    int x;
>>    void* p =&x;
>>
>> p cannot be derferenced. Hence in your view a claim that it points to/at x
>> "flies in the face of the concept of pointer".
> Ok now I am starting to think that you and Paul are drinking from the same well.
> :)

Don't know about Paul, because he's in my killfile.

But in case it was not obvious, the above exemplifies a direct 
self-contradiction in Noah's view.

I think that when a self-contradiction is pointed out, then about the least 
reasonable response is to snip the short argument and add a personal attack. 
Hence, I plonked him, also because of his earlier allegations about sexual 
deviations of Johannes Schaub. And similarly, in the case of Paul, killfiled in 
part because of earlier allegations about sexual deviations of Francis 
Glasborrow, and in the case of Leigh I remember killfiling him for a tirade 
about Pete Becker, on top of generally trollish behavior, but I may have been 
wrong, judging from glimpses I've had. But at least regarding Paul and Noah, 
these folks are really *real* trolls, people who just love to stir up a fight 
and who write all kinds of nasty stuff about others, make no mistake about it.


> Of course a void pointer is an exception. We could also cast the pointer to an
> infinite number of types and expect infinitely different types of yielded
> values.
>
> He does not assert that all pointers must be dereferenceable, just that
> dereferencing the int* in the former example yields an int.

No, what Noah wrote, which is quoted in context above, was


   "To claim that a pointer points at anything other than what you get when you
    dereference it flies in the face ofthe concept of "pointer".


If, then, he supported the claim that


   p points to x


then he would be claiming that p points to something other than what you get 
when you dereference it, and hence in his own view that support for the 
statement "p points to x" would fly in the face of the concept of "pointer".

Hence Noah cannot reasonably be supporting the view that p points to x.

However, just about everybody else would agree that p points to x.

I am guessing that for example you, too, agree with that.

Be that as it may (about your agreement or not), Noah's view, where p cannot 
point to anything, is not in line with the general consensus about the 
terminology here. And so it is quite irrelevant as an argument about pointers 
that point to arrays, or not. Invalid is invalid, however sweet it may sound.

[snipped irrelevant argumentantion]


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf

-- 
blog at <url: http://alfps.wordpress.com>

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Thread

On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 04:00 +0200
  Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2011-04-12 00:13 -0400
  Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 05:17 +0100
    Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 14:02 +0100
      Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 14:10 +0100
        Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 14:49 +0100
      Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-12 10:05 -0400
  Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-12 01:11 -0400
  Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2011-04-11 23:24 -0700
    Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 00:16 -0700
      Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 13:53 +0100
        Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 14:08 +0100
      Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 14:05 +0100
        Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 14:48 +0100
          Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 07:53 +1200
      Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 22:14 +0200
        Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2011-04-12 15:39 -0700
    Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Goran <goran.pusic@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 01:39 -0700
      Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-12 20:51 +1200
    Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2011-04-12 21:51 +0000
  Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cpp4ever <n2xssvv.g02gfr12930@ntlworld.com> - 2011-04-12 09:59 +0100
    Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 16:25 +0200
      Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cpp4ever <n2xssvv.g02gfr12930@ntlworld.com> - 2011-04-12 16:07 +0100
        Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 17:32 +0200
          Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cpp4ever <n2xssvv.g02gfr12930@ntlworld.com> - 2011-04-12 16:53 +0100
            Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 18:16 +0200
              Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cpp4ever <n2xssvv.g02gfr12930@ntlworld.com> - 2011-04-12 17:39 +0100
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 19:32 +0200
                Re: DILLIGAF cpp4ever <n2xssvv.g02gfr12930@ntlworld.com> - 2011-04-12 19:05 +0100
                Re: DILLIGAF Peter Remmers <p.remmers@expires-2011-04-30.arcornews.de> - 2011-04-12 20:36 +0200
                Re: DILLIGAF cpp4ever <n2xssvv.g02gfr12930@ntlworld.com> - 2011-04-12 20:47 +0100
                Re: DILLIGAF gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 14:48 -0700
                Re: DILLIGAF Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2011-04-12 15:16 -0700
    Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 17:48 +0100
  Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Noah Roberts <dont@email.me> - 2011-04-12 09:37 -0700
    Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 18:34 +0100
    Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 19:38 +0200
      Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Noah Roberts <dont@email.me> - 2011-04-12 11:00 -0700
        Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 20:03 +0200
          Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Noah Roberts <dont@email.me> - 2011-04-12 11:06 -0700
            Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Peter Remmers <p.remmers@expires-2011-04-30.arcornews.de> - 2011-04-12 20:26 +0200
              Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Noah Roberts <dont@email.me> - 2011-04-12 11:33 -0700
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Peter Remmers <p.remmers@expires-2011-04-30.arcornews.de> - 2011-04-12 20:55 +0200
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 20:14 +0100
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Noah Roberts <dont@email.me> - 2011-04-12 12:47 -0700
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Peter Remmers <p.remmers@expires-2011-04-30.arcornews.de> - 2011-04-12 22:40 +0200
      Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-12 14:15 -0400
        Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 20:52 +0200
          Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 20:23 +0100
          Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-12 16:01 -0400
            Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Noah Roberts <dont@email.me> - 2011-04-12 13:46 -0700
              Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2011-04-12 19:49 -0700
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays hanukas <jukka@liimatta.org> - 2011-04-13 00:06 -0700
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 04:14 -0400
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2011-04-13 07:53 -0700
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-13 09:52 +0100
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 05:20 -0400
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-13 10:31 +0100
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 07:04 -0400
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-13 12:35 +0100
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 07:41 -0400
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-14 07:47 +1200
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-14 11:44 +0100
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> - 2011-04-13 18:41 +0200
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Noah Roberts <dont@email.me> - 2011-04-13 09:35 -0700
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-13 20:17 +0100
              Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 04:33 -0400
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 04:35 -0400
            Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-13 01:19 +0100
              Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 04:01 -0400
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 04:20 -0400
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-13 09:56 +0100
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 05:24 -0400
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-13 10:34 +0100
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 07:07 -0400
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-13 12:36 +0100
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 07:43 -0400
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-13 13:18 +0100
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 08:30 -0400
            Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-04-13 15:57 +0200
              Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Leigh Johnston <leigh@i42.co.uk> - 2011-04-13 15:10 +0100
              Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 11:09 -0400
                Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 12:04 -0400
            Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Noah Roberts <dont@email.me> - 2011-04-13 09:56 -0700
              Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays cg_chas <cg_chas@hotmail.com> - 2011-04-13 14:11 -0400
      Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays "Paul" <pchristor@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-04-12 19:29 +0100
  Re: On generally accepted terminology for pointers and arrays Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-04-12 09:36 -0700

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