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Groups > uk.tech.broadcast > #57259
| From | Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | uk.tech.broadcast, alt.comp.software.thunderbird |
| Subject | Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) |
| Date | 2021-04-28 08:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <iete3dFp9raU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (6 earlier) <s67db6$1hk$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <iep1ruFtu60U2@mid.individual.net> <s67mic$cti$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <ieqrl3Fa1s9U1@mid.individual.net> <2HP9q9GTvXigFw8f@255soft.uk> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 4/28/2021 8:14 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: > On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 at 09:15:30, Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> wrote > I agree with whichever of you (I forget which) said that top-posting is > bad, but tolerable if the whole Q&A can be seen in one window (not > screen; I don't read full-screen). I'm the one who said that. Thanks for agreeing. > > Special case - Brian Gaff (the talking sofa): we tolerate his > top-posting because we know he's blind. (I do wish he wouldn't use a > proper sig-separator though.) OK. >>> You're using English, so I'm going to assume that it's familiar to you. >>> As such, you are probably also familiar with the top to bottom flow of >>> normal English writing. >> >> >>And all (almost all?) other languages. >> > Interesting ponder: do languages that go in different directions (e. g. > right-to-left as in Hebrew, or vertically as in some of the oriental > languages) have this top/bottom/inter posting debate? As I just said to Grant, left-to-right or right-to-left is irrelevant. So is vertical writing. As far as I know, all languages are top-to-bottom. >>We agree. Of course it shouldn't. My point is simply that if someone >>asks me a question like >> >> How old are you? >> >>and I reply >> >> 83. >> >> > How old are you? >> >>even though it's illogical and wrong, it's *very* easy to read and >>understand the reply. >> >>Contrast that with >> >> 83 >> >> two screens full of quoted material ending with >> >> > How old are you? >> >> >>*That* is very hard to read and understand the reply without scrolling >>all the way to end and then perhaps back up to reread the reply (unless >>you remember the question from whenever it was asked (which I seldom do). > > Well put. Thanks. > (As for whoever suggested repeating the question in the > answer, fine, but why should anyone have to?) Right (but I know several people who do that. It always seems strange to me). >>That's the reason why in my opinion, sufficient trimming is often more >>important than whether someone top posts or bottom posts >> > Thoroughly agree. Thanks again. Note (Grant should also note this) that I said "often," not "always." >>> Once you get beyond a certain length of email or discussion, there is a >>> sequence of multiple points. And it's quite common to give participants >>> the opportunity to respond to various points during the course of a >>> longer discussion. I view interspersing point with counter points to be >>> the same way. This is typically referred to in-line style. >>> I strongly prefer in-line style. >> > Me too - with trimming. As for "the reader should not be obliged to go > back and read other posts to get the full context" as an argument > _against_ trimming: I take the point, but disagree where drift (or > evolution, to give a less negative word) has occurred. For example, I > don't think this discussion of posting style - which it has now become - > would benefit from the section on playing 78RPM records (which is how > uk.tech.broadcast became added in the first place, as there are several > there - one in particular - who are knowledgeable about and interested > in that, there) was still included. > > Trimming is an art; you can trim too much or too little. Too little is > far commoner, IMO. I agree with all three of those statements. >>As do I, as you can see from my reply here. >> >>Once again, my only point is that regardless of what you and I prefer, >>for simple replies to simple points that have been trimmed to fit on a >>single screen, it's not as important as it it sometime is in other cases. > > Agreed (though I think we'd all prefer chronological too [possibly even > Brian if there was enough trimming]). If not all, mot of us here, as I said more than once in my replies to Grant. However, there are many exceptions to that--people who inexplicably insist that top-posting is better. >> >>And despite what some people say, as far as I'm concerned, that goes >>for e-mail as well as usenet posts. Top-posting is not a good way to do > > Agreed! One more thanks. >>it. It's as illogical and wrong in e-mail as it is is usenet. Even >>worse are those people who reply to e-mail (or usenet posts) without >>quoting anything; it may work for them if they read very few messages >>each day, but it doesn't work for me, since I read many and can almost > > Indeed! My reaction is usually "you what?", "what are you on about?", or > similar. (Twitter has a tendency to do this: I sometimes see tweets that > say "You're right there, especially where bacon is involved", and > however much I try, I can't find the tweet they're responding to. > [Though whichever of you doesn't use it, don't let that put you off > Twitter. It can be enjoyable.]) It's me who doesn't use it. I'll take your word for it that it can be enjoyable, but I'm still not interested. I'm not interested in any "social media." I barely have the time for e-mail and usenet, and I'm not interested in starting something else. >>> Aside: I view "but my client does $THIS automaticaly" comments to be an >>> excuse at best. Also, the size and popularity of the institution that >>> creates a tool to do something does not speak to it's properness, rather >>> simply nods to it's likely probability. >> >> >> >>I completely agree. If a program doesn't put the reply cursor where you >>want it, either switch to a different program or get into the habit of >>moving the cursor to where you want it. >> >>However, note that no program can put the cursor wherever you want it >>for inline posting. > > Well ... > > I like to _think_ that software that put the cursor at the top did it to > encourage snipping-and-inline-posting. Maybe, but I doubt it. I don't see why that should encourage that and I don't understand the rationale for their doing it the way they did. > Unfortunately, this happened > about the time usage (of news and email) was spreading sufficiently fast > (1980s perhaps?) that people took to it without being shown by others > what was good practice, so never learnt about snipping-and-inline - they > just assumed, since the cursor was placed at the top by the software, > that their entire reply should go there. Perhaps, but I think that for most people, because the cursor was there, that meant that that was the correct place to put their reply. > Of course, some software developers then sealed the fate by also putting > the .sig above the quoted text. That was the end. Alas, yes. -- Ken
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Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-25 08:58 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-25 09:28 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-25 10:11 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Jim S <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2021-04-25 10:25 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-25 10:47 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-25 11:04 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Chris Youlden <fbx@youlden.co.uk> - 2021-04-25 12:13 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-25 12:27 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Chris Youlden <fbx@youlden.co.uk> - 2021-04-26 12:33 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-26 09:11 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-26 09:19 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 07:55 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-26 17:11 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2021-04-26 16:47 +0000
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 10:45 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2021-04-26 18:20 +0000
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 11:44 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-26 16:02 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 16:49 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-26 18:39 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-27 09:15 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-27 12:26 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 08:20 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:37 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Laurence Taylor <laurence@nospam.plus.com> - 2021-04-28 21:40 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-28 22:01 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> - 2021-04-29 09:19 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Miguel Tomar Nogueira <mnogueira@mail.telepac.pt> - 2021-04-28 02:29 +0000
OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 16:14 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 08:42 -0700
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 17:42 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 10:07 -0700
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 18:37 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> - 2021-04-29 09:06 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:45 -0600
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 17:50 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:57 -0600
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 18:10 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style (was: Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> - 2021-04-29 09:31 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2021-04-28 20:06 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-28 20:24 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2021-04-29 10:29 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2021-04-29 10:35 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> - 2021-04-29 11:05 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2021-04-29 15:58 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2021-04-29 19:04 +0100
Re: OT: posting/emailing style Robin <rbw@outlook.com> - 2021-04-29 11:01 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> - 2021-04-26 23:29 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-26 16:01 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> - 2021-04-26 23:28 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 16:57 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-26 18:56 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-27 09:32 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-27 10:59 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-27 10:26 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-27 12:28 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 08:23 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:50 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 10:51 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 10:15 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2021-04-28 11:48 -0600
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-28 10:58 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-26 20:00 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-04-26 12:25 -0700
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-26 16:26 -0500
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Miguel Tomar Nogueira <mnogueira@mail.telepac.pt> - 2021-04-27 05:07 +0000
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Dave W <davewi11@yahoo.co.uk> - 2021-04-26 21:19 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-26 15:54 -0500
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text Chris Youlden <fbx@youlden.co.uk> - 2021-04-26 22:58 +0100
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-26 17:55 -0500
Re: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-25 09:47 -0500
Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header (was: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-26 18:27 -0500
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header (was: Thunderbird - disabling display of quoted text) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-27 10:45 +0100
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-27 14:05 -0500
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-27 20:10 +0100
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-27 15:05 -0500
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-27 21:20 +0100
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-27 17:39 -0500
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2021-04-28 06:58 +0100
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2021-04-28 01:59 -0500
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header MB <MB@nospam.net> - 2021-04-27 22:03 +0100
Re: Cross-posting not showing in Newsgroups header Miguel Tomar Nogueira <mnogueira@mail.telepac.pt> - 2021-04-28 02:50 +0000
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