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Groups > comp.mobile.android > #74044
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.mobile.android |
| Subject | Re: OT: Key duplication |
| Date | 2021-01-23 00:20 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <g83sdh-3ld.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink) |
| References | (5 earlier) <rubttm$9ng$1@dont-email.me> <fh7pdh-5hk.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <rud0g4$icq$1@dont-email.me> <97updh-28a.ln1@Telcontar.valinor> <ruekq5$p7r$1@dont-email.me> |
On 22/01/2021 14.43, Mayayana wrote: > "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote > > | > Ha ha. Yes. Free to wrestle with commandline. > | > | Or enjoy the command line :-P > | > > Possibly. I plan to go for a walk today on crutches, > which I don't need. I'll test your idea that idiotic tedium > can be more fun. :) > > For years I would try Linux periodically. I set a goal. > If I can set up what I want without editing files in /etc > or using console windows, and if I could find an easy, > intuitive firewall that blocks outgoing by process, then > I might get more serious about Linux. A very low bar. I'm > happy to have commandline. I just don't want it to be > required. Hum. Expecting things to work the same way can be painful, that's not a good approach. The (current) firewall on Linux is based on ports, not on applications. There is no concept of firewalling an application or not. Not absolutely so, there are tools which can do blocking on applications: I know that AppArmour does it or is working on it. And I heard about a new type of firewall being designed. Then, almost all the configuration is based on editing files, that's not going to change. You can do it on a terminal, or with a full blown editor. And some times, somebody may create a graphical interface to configure something hiding the editing of files that happens behind the curtains. The advantage is that we can simply copy a configuration file from backup, or from another computer, and drop it in new place. Or find instructions on internet that tell what to change in a few lines. Once one is used to this methodology, we find the Windows way harder to use. For instance, the openSUSE distribution has a graphical administration tool called YaST. It covers many things with dialogs, but not everything. > > I figure that's common sense. I wouldn't buy a new > car that needs a transmission. I wouldn't move into a > house with ceilings that are falling down. I wouldn't > use an OS that requires me to become an expert > before I can do basic things easily. Linux hasn't even > come close so far. I looked at the WINE site for versions > and ended up coming across a long page of commandline > instructions to install it on Mint. Huh?! What's the matter > with these people? Are they all still 15 year old virgins? Linux *is* different. There is a learning curve (you probably have been learning Windows for decades, like me). There are things that will not change, we like them the way they are, they are intentionally that way. Expecting them to change can be discouraging or hurtful. On the other hand, for a plain user, if there is a person that does the administration/maintenance of the computer, it really does not matter if the machine is Windows or Linux, they feel the same. > > ... But, I haven't tried Linux lately, so... the bar is now > even lower because Win10 is so bad. Which is why I mentioned it. There is no spying on Linux. It is not commercial. At a price, there is less polish. Depending on your needs, there may be much work to do initially (on a not familiar environment). > > I've used Suse before so I decided to try that instead of Mint. > They seem to have a smoother system for software install. > But in recent years it seems that Linux has been missing the > point in other ways. Increasingly there's a "civilian" wrapper > that locks down the system and works great for elderly > people who want to check their email. But the in-between -- > the approach that used to be done so well on Windows -- > is missing. That was the way that MS provided options for > people at every level of expertise... before they decided to > lock customers out of the product with Win10. Mind, Linux changes fast. If you buy an administration guide of ten years ago, it may be useless. Depends on the area. > In Linux there's an attitude that if you're not fluent in > C++ and can't recite the 5 greatest achievements of > Richard Stallman then you shouldn't be able to change > system settings. LOL. I can't either, but I certainly change system settings :-D > The elephant in the room is that the vast > majority of pimple-faced Linux nuts don't want it to be > usable. They like to imagine themselves like wizards, using > arcane incantations that no one else can understand. It's > like the representation of advanced computing in TV shows. > They always show something like a green screen with yellow > text showing scarps of DOS or C++ to indicate "incredibly > advanced computer stuff that you could never hope to > understand". :-D Most of those arcane incantations seem so simply because they are unfamiliar, but they are not arcane at all. To a Linux admin type, the administration of a Windows system (Windows Server more so) seems arcane as well. To me, the installation and administration of Microsoft Exchange is Magic. You do it twice exactly the same, one works, the other fails. Truly, it happened to me in a training course :-) > It was similar recently setting up a raspberry pi. It > works pretty well. But I had to go online to figure out > some basics. Then I had to write down the incantations > needed and run them. That's a serious design flaw, when > I need to search through online forums to find out how > to use the product... and have to be tech-savvy to carry > it out. Would happen to me as well, and I am very learned on Linux :-p > | You might run Linux daily without touching the command line, except for > | some repairs or maintenance. > | > | Hey, even Windows has a command line > > Yes, but I almost never have to use it. I used it > recently on an old XP computer to swap out hal.dll > for the multi-core-cpu version of hal.dll. I used to > use it for youtube-dl before I wrote a wrapper for > that. There's a reason for GUI. It's much, much > easier. If I have to do anything in console more > than once, that's a design problem. There should > be a button or slider or radio buttons or checkbox > somewhere to perform that action. I find the terminal easier than the GUI often :-p You will often not find the GUI, and that's intentional. I have many wrapper tools of my own to do many things, like youtube-dl, but they are textmode themselves. I see creating a GUI like a waste of my time (and I was an MsDOS / Windows programmer once upon a time, I wrote GUIs) It is a different paradigm. Of course, if something is used a lot, someone may create a GUI and publish it. > > | Yu can even install something I forgot the name, from the > | store, to run Linux commands in Windows. > | > > Windows subsystem for Linux? Imagine my excitement. :-D The intention is, I gather, the reverse of WINE. Run Linux applications natively under Windows. > Now I can run commands from 1980 in 2 different > dialects. :) They did a similar thing with PowerShell. What > I heard was that they're trying to cater to Linux/Unix > server admins, in order to make it easy for them to switch > to Windows. It's a horrendous system, which I've so far > had no use for. Just as well. A lot of malware has been > written for PS and it's optional on XP. So there's no reason > to install it. Windows scripting was created in the 90s to > replace commandline. They're only bringing it back so that > Linux geeks can feel at home. It's like McDonald's adding a > hunting range so that you can feel like a caveman by > hunting down your hamburger. Hum. No, the computer would hunt the hamburger or use the available raw meat, and prepare it exactly my way, every day, when I gave the order, instead of having to pay a team of McDonald staff to create a panel for me :-) -- Cheers, Carlos.
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OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 10:54 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-13 11:09 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 12:08 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-13 15:19 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 13:40 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-14 15:43 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-14 10:59 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-13 22:58 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 15:56 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 07:33 +0700
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-13 21:27 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2021-01-13 23:28 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 23:07 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 15:58 +0700
Re: OT: Key duplication AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2021-01-15 09:34 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-15 15:30 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-15 18:13 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 18:47 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-16 04:17 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-16 09:14 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-17 02:31 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-16 22:08 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-18 23:08 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-18 14:22 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-19 13:50 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 10:56 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2021-01-19 12:34 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-19 22:35 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 15:55 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-20 01:42 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 19:54 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 21:02 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-20 08:38 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 10:01 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-20 12:37 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-20 23:14 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-20 23:34 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-21 14:56 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 09:59 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-21 22:09 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 14:06 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 04:08 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 19:35 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 12:45 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-22 09:37 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 23:21 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-23 19:59 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-21 19:48 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-22 07:31 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2021-01-21 22:22 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 04:16 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-22 07:42 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-21 15:16 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> - 2021-01-22 07:46 +0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 04:25 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 19:49 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 21:01 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 22:47 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 05:16 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 09:55 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-23 20:05 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-21 14:49 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-21 06:46 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 10:09 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 09:56 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-20 13:04 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication Boris <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-22 02:02 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> - 2021-01-22 09:30 +0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 04:36 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-18 12:37 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-18 14:07 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-18 14:41 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-18 15:03 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2021-01-19 16:02 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 20:48 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-19 20:43 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-20 09:08 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-20 23:08 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2021-01-20 09:08 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-20 07:42 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2021-01-20 08:25 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 09:37 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2021-01-20 08:16 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-14 00:37 +0000
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-20 09:03 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 09:53 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-20 20:20 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-21 08:00 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-21 05:31 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-21 07:14 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-21 12:28 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-21 11:18 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-21 22:15 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-21 17:50 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 04:43 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-22 08:43 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-22 07:27 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-22 12:46 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-22 12:50 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 23:29 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication - Wine "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 23:36 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-22 23:42 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-22 16:05 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-23 09:11 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-23 10:37 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-23 17:23 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication Ken Blake <ken@invalidemail.com> - 2021-01-23 09:07 -0700
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-23 13:42 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-22 14:48 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-23 05:02 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-23 08:47 -0500
Re: OT: Key duplication "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-23 00:20 +0100
Re: OT: Key duplication Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-18 12:29 -0800
Re: OT: Key duplication micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> - 2021-01-20 07:19 -0500
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