Re: EINSTEIN's category, far from the Pope.

From	vallor <vallor@cultnix.org>
Newsgroups	sci.physics, comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject	Re: EINSTEIN's category, far from the Pope.
Date	2018-06-09 22:54 +0000
Message-ID	<fo3463FochoU3@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <iuxSC.158766$R51.149070@fx03.iad> <fo0qhdFbsq2U1@mid.individual.net> <fo0ttsFcl4oU1@mid.individual.net> <fo2vkbFochoU1@mid.individual.net> <Jeff-Relf.Me@Jun.9--2.51pm.Seattle.2018>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On Sat, 09 Jun 2018 14:51:14 -0700, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:

> Scott replied ( to Mike ):
>> > How do you know if you have free will ?
>> 
>> This is very much wrapped up in the "hard" problem of consciousness,
>> and without an appreciation of that, you can find yourself stuck in
>> long-refuted 19th century determinism.
> 
> "refuted" by whom, the Pope ?

I see you are stuck in 19th century determinism.  That's a shame, because 
it is now common knowledge that there are non-deterministic processes in 
nature.

You are, of course, free to deny this, if your religion demands it.

> 
> Everyone avoids the truth, to some extent;
> we assert _useful_ premises, irregardless of the truth;
> hence ego, online gaming and religion.
> 
> Einstein, on the other hand, loved the truth, more than most.
> To his death, he kept telling us: free will is an illusion.
> 
>> One point is that the universe has already demonstrated it has non-
>> deterministic processes, so there is the very real possibility that
>> consciousness is also non-deterministic.
> 
> All of history, every lesson ever, every advance, tells me ( not you ):
> 
>   Randomness is ignorance, nothing more;
>   otherwise, there'd be NO TRUTH, nothing for me to aspire to.
> 
>> If you don't experience your will as being free,
>> then you belong in [ EINSTEIN's ] category [ far from the Pope ].

You're equating yourself with Einstein?  I said "Jeff", not what you post-
edited.

Incidentally, Einstein used to say "God does not play dice with the 
universe" -- then had to admit that the Copenhagen interpretation was 
more accurate than he was comfortable with.

> 
> _Everyone_ is enslaved, there is no free will.
> We simply prefer the LeastBad "option",
> and we can't change what we prefer.
> 
> How and What we consume is what makes us different.
> 
> At the start, there was no entropy, just infinite eXergy/density.
> [ eXergy is a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance
> ]
> And, because " Time == Entropy ", there was no time on the clock then.
> 
> Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy;
> leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy but none
> of the eXergy.  Gravity is the "memory" of where the stuff was.
> 
> General Relativity's four dimensional TimeScape is static, eternal,
> perfectly causal... it is, at once, everything _and_ nothing.

Do you have a shrine for your religion?  If so, please post photos, 
should be interesting.

-- 
-v

Thread

Can  quantum measurement be rejected ? will <willscranton@butchersboulevard.commypanprofile> - 2018-06-06 18:07 +0000
  Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-06 18:14 +0000
    Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? will <willscranton@butchersboulevard.commypanprofile> - 2018-06-06 22:38 +0000
      Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2018-06-06 17:43 -0700
        Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? will <willscranton@butchersboulevard.commypanprofile> - 2018-06-07 22:07 +0000
          Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2018-06-07 17:12 -0700
            Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? will <willscranton@butchersboulevard.commypanprofile> - 2018-06-08 14:49 +0000
      Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-06 22:39 -0400
        Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-06-07 05:19 +0200
          Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-07 05:31 -0400
            Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-06-07 12:01 +0200
              Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-07 16:32 -0400
                Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? will <willscranton@butchersboulevard.commypanprofile> - 2018-06-07 21:58 +0000
                Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-08 04:12 -0700
                Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? will <willscranton@butchersboulevard.commypanprofile> - 2018-06-08 14:38 +0000
                Re: Can quantum measurement be rejected ? Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@CAPITALSgmail.com> - 2018-06-08 02:41 +0200
  "Quantum Mechanics" has no cause and effect, just probabilities. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-06 11:47 -0700
    Re: "Quantum Mechanics" has no cause and effect, just probabilities. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-06 19:00 +0000
      We assert useful premises, disregarding the truth. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-06 12:25 -0700
        Re: We assert useful premises, disregarding the truth. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-06 16:35 -0400
          Re: We assert useful premises, disregarding the truth. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-06-06 17:52 -0700
            Re: We assert useful premises, disregarding the truth. mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-06-06 18:15 -0700
            No truth, Nothing to aspire to ? Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-06 18:21 -0700
              Re: No truth, Nothing to aspire to ? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-06 22:47 -0400
                NO TRUTH. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-06 20:28 -0700
                Re: NO TRUTH. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-07 05:32 -0400
                Harp playing, androgynous angels in the clouds ? Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-07 11:18 -0700
                Re: Harp playing, androgynous angels in the clouds ? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-07 16:42 -0400
                Ben Jacoby takes _pride_ in his randomness, I don't. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-07 14:15 -0700
                Re: Ben Jacoby takes _pride_ in his randomness, I don't. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-08 02:20 -0400
                Worshiping Ignorance. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-07 23:36 -0700
                Re: Worshiping Ignorance. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-08 11:42 -0400
                " I can choose to do the opposite of what I prefer " -- Ben Jacoby. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-08 10:17 -0700
                Re: Worshiping Ignorance. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-09 01:58 +0000
                Re: Worshiping Ignorance. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-06-08 19:55 -0700
                Re: Worshiping Ignorance. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-09 21:37 +0000
                EINSTEIN's category, far from the Pope. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-09 14:51 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN's category, far from the Pope. Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-06-09 22:01 +0000
                To a retard, _everything_ is "random". Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-09 15:11 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN's category, far from the Pope. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-06-09 15:13 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN's category, far from the Pope. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-10 15:52 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN's category, far from the Pope. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-09 22:54 +0000
                People are forever MisQuoting Einstein; I correct them. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-09 16:40 -0700
                Re: People are forever MisQuoting Einstein; I correct them. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-10 00:15 +0000
                Putting words in Einstein's mouth. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-09 17:42 -0700
                Re: Putting words in Einstein's mouth. vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-10 00:59 +0000
                God Doesn't Play Dice, he's not an idiot; nor is he a "he". Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-09 18:28 -0700
                Re: God Doesn't Play Dice, he's not an idiot; nor is he a "he". vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-10 01:42 +0000
                Mark Twain was a determinist. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-09 20:16 -0700
                Re: Mark Twain was a determinist. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-10 12:48 -0400
                Quantum Mechanics is statistical, not complete. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-10 10:51 -0700
                Re: Quantum Mechanics is statistical, not complete. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-11 11:02 -0400
                Quantum Mechanics is statistical, not complete. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-11 09:20 -0700
                Re: Quantum Mechanics is statistical, not complete. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-11 17:09 -0400
                Bell's theorem is just another "I don't know". Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-11 14:32 -0700
                Re: Bell's theorem is just another "I don't know". Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-06-11 14:33 -0700
                No one can "prove" ThermoDynamics and/or General Relativity, 100.00000000%. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-11 15:00 -0700
                Re: No one can "prove" ThermoDynamics and/or General Relativity, 100.00000000%. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-06-11 15:01 -0700
                We assert _useful_ premises ( and ThermoDynamics is _Very_ useful ). Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-11 15:27 -0700
                Re: Bell's theorem is just another "I don't know". benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-11 19:57 -0400
                Re: Bell's theorem is just another "I don't know". vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-12 17:11 +0000
                SuperDeterminism was useful to Einstein, and to me. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-12 12:03 -0700
                Re: SuperDeterminism was useful to Einstein, and to me. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-13 09:03 -0700
                Enjoy your silly hat. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-13 14:46 -0700
                Re: Enjoy your silly hat. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-14 08:20 -0700
                Sex toys/dolls. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-15 00:44 -0700
                Re: Sex toys/dolls. Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-06-15 05:49 -0700
                Re: Sex toys/dolls. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-15 11:47 -0400
                MostChristian != BestChristian Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-15 13:46 -0700
                Re: God Doesn't Play Dice, he's not an idiot; nor is he a "he". mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-06-09 19:37 -0700
                Re: God Doesn't Play Dice, he's not an idiot; nor is he a "he". benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-09 22:59 -0400
                Re: God Doesn't Play Dice, he's not an idiot; nor is he a "he". vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-10 03:51 +0000
                Re: God Doesn't Play Dice, he's not an idiot; nor is he a "he". benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-10 12:50 -0400
                Mark Twain, Einstein and Stephen Hawking are revered by nerds Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-10 11:01 -0700
                Re: Mark Twain, Einstein and Stephen Hawking are revered by nerds benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-11 11:06 -0400
                Asleep, living in a dream. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-11 10:04 -0700
                Re: Asleep, living in a dream. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-06-11 14:22 -0500
                Re: Asleep, living in a dream. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-11 17:21 -0400
                Your house is built on sand. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-11 14:43 -0700
                Re: Putting words in Einstein's mouth. chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2018-06-11 07:02 -0500
                Quantum Mechanics is _not_ complete. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-11 09:41 -0700
                Re: Quantum Mechanics is _not_ complete. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-11 17:17 -0400
                "statistics is [sic] real" -- Ben Jacoby. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-11 14:39 -0700
                Re: "statistics is [sic] real" -- Ben Jacoby. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-06-11 14:53 -0700
                When I hear the word "Quantum", I replace it with the word "BullShit". Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-11 15:09 -0700
                Re: "statistics is [sic] real" -- Ben Jacoby. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-11 20:00 -0400
                " I can't know "  -- Bell's Theorem. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-11 19:29 -0700
                Re: EINSTEIN's category, far from the Pope. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-09 22:28 -0400
                Re: Worshiping Ignorance. Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2018-06-09 14:53 -0700
                Re: Worshiping Ignorance. Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-06-09 16:41 -0700
                If the truth is your enemy... Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-09 00:14 -0700
                Re: Worshiping Ignorance. Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2018-06-09 06:52 -0400
        Re: We assert useful premises, disregarding the truth. Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-06-06 21:22 +0000
          I feel rich, very rich. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-06-06 14:39 -0700
      Re: "Quantum Mechanics" has no cause and effect, just probabilities. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-06 16:32 -0400
    Re: "Quantum Mechanics" has no cause and effect, just probabilities. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-06 16:30 -0400

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