Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #453898

Re: Units in spacetime

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Units in spacetime
Date	2018-03-26 21:43 +0200
Message-ID	<fht0q8F5phhU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
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Am 26.03.2018 um 15:39 schrieb xip1415926@gmail.com:
> On Sunday, March 25, 2018 at 1:03:45 PM UTC-4, Thomas Heger wrote:
>
>>> The question is, which kind of units are appropriate and why.
>
> ++++
>
> In 1920 Appendix-1 ( Bartleby.com ): Einstein has collinear axes X and X′.  Axis X′ is in motion relative to axis X at speed v.
>
> g = gamma
>
> Quote:
>
> “Two points on axis X′ which are separated by a distance x′ = 1 when measured on axis X′ are thus separated in our snapshot by the distance: Δx = 1/g.”
>
> Unquote.
>
> “Distance x′ = 1” spans one unit on moving axis X′.   A snapshot of this unit is taken from stationary axis X.  The camera is fast enough to freeze the action and faithfully render moving unit “x′ = 1”  to the viewer on stationary X.  Unit distance so discovered by the camera is found by the viewer on axis X to have size x = ( 1/g ) · 1 or Δx = ( 1/g ) · 1 in terms of X-units.
>
> It is not an equation.  You cannot write an equation and Einstein doesn’t.
>
> Einstein writes:  “Δx = 1/g.”  An equation has a dependent variable on the left hand side and an independent variable on the right hand side.  No such independent variable appears.  Einstein’s expression is just a right-to-left assignment operator such as you have in a programming language.
>
> An attempt might be: Δx′ = 1/g · Δx, so that now you have variables on each side.    It doesn’t work.   The deltas are mixed messages.  On the r.h.s Δx is a unit of length on X which is Δx = 1.  On the l.h.s we must have a similar understanding of delta, and that is a unit of length on X′ which is Δx′ = 1.  The equation is then:  1 = 1/g · 1, obviously wrong.
>
> The confusion boils down to Δx′, an item which Einstein declines to use.  Is it value of a unit of length, Δx′ = 1, or is it the phenomenon of a unit of length, Δx′ = 1/g  ??
>
> Ambiguities of this sort plague the entire Special Theory.
>

I do agree, but usually do not refer to Einstein or SRT, but to a 
slightly different version of relativity by Herman Minkowski.


Einstein discusses the question of parallel movement with different 
velocities. But 'parallel movement with different velocities' does not 
sound like what nature usually does.


To overcome such a restriction I prefer a different setup:

- time is a local phenomenon and measured by the observer

- the observer stays constantly at rest in his own FoR

- the observer defines the term 'space' with distances to himself

- this 'space' is actually his own past light-cone.

- this 'space' and what is visible there is what he calls 'universe'

- any observer is of equal rights, hence has his own personal 'universe'



The change in velocity is actually a curvature of the worldline (of the 
observer). Since he is at rest (by definition), he enters a different 
'time domain' through acceleration.

So: timelines are specific and not necessarily in parallel. They could 
also have an angle.

We could actually see such anomalies. E.g. the so called 'Pioneer 
anomaly' could be explained as 'curvature of the axis of time' (of the 
Pioneer craft), because the probe was accelerated (e.g. by a rocket and 
several planets).


TH

Thread

Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-13 10:06 +0100
  Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-13 07:15 -0700
    Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 14:36 +0000
      Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-13 07:51 -0700
        Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-13 08:34 -0700
      Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 09:20 -0700
        Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 16:27 +0000
          Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 16:28 +0000
          Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 09:45 -0700
            Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-13 18:39 +0100
              Re: Units in spacetime Térov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik> - 2018-03-13 17:49 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime Térov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik> - 2018-03-13 17:49 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-14 13:54 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Térov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik> - 2018-03-14 16:02 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-14 21:47 +0100
            Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 18:02 +0000
              Re: Units in spacetime Térov Balónky <iytn@yeicenlw.ik> - 2018-03-13 18:12 +0000
      Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-13 22:00 +0100
        Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-13 22:55 +0000
          Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 09:19 -0700
            Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-14 09:32 -0700
              Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-14 09:52 -0700
            Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 18:07 +0000
              Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-14 12:03 -0700
              Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 13:18 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-14 21:38 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 16:27 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-03-15 01:05 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 03:52 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 23:10 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-15 00:16 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 11:55 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-15 14:40 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-15 16:02 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 15:20 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 09:49 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 19:49 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-15 11:26 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-03-15 04:03 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 15:50 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-15 21:15 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 10:30 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-03-15 18:32 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 19:51 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-15 20:56 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-15 23:20 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-16 10:11 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-18 22:25 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-19 09:17 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 10:36 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 17:57 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 11:16 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 18:43 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-19 13:02 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-19 21:24 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-20 09:32 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Python <python@python.invalid> - 2018-03-20 17:40 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-20 09:55 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-03-20 18:25 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-20 14:21 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@notmail.com> - 2018-03-20 22:57 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-20 16:00 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Darryl Fletcher <lu@ewiwwe.tt> - 2018-03-20 23:38 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-22 14:01 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 13:45 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-27 20:18 +0200
                Re: Units in spacetime xip1415926@gmail.com - 2018-03-27 14:40 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime xip1415926@gmail.com - 2018-03-26 07:38 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-27 19:53 +0200
                Re: Units in spacetime xip1415926@gmail.com - 2018-03-27 12:21 -0700
                Re: Units in spacetime Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-03-27 16:47 -0400
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-28 09:34 +0200
                Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-20 21:12 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-16 10:32 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2018-03-16 12:33 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-17 21:29 +0100
                Re: Units in spacetime Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-03-14 20:51 +0000
                Re: Units in spacetime "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-20 15:41 -0700
            Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-15 14:04 +0100
              Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-15 20:10 +0100
      Re: Units in spacetime Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-22 05:57 +0100
        Re: Units in spacetime Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-03-27 19:57 +0200
  Re: Units in spacetime numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-03-20 13:49 -0700
    Re: Units in spacetime Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-03-21 07:26 +0000
  Re: Units in spacetime numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-03-22 15:28 -0700
    Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-23 09:57 +0100
      Re: Units in spacetime xip1415926@gmail.com - 2018-03-25 18:54 -0700
  Re: Units in spacetime numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2018-03-23 10:48 -0700
    Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-25 19:03 +0200
      Re: Units in spacetime xip1415926@gmail.com - 2018-03-26 06:39 -0700
        Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-03-26 21:43 +0200
  Re: Units in spacetime Keith Stein <keithstein111@gmail.com> - 2018-03-30 11:00 +0100
    Re: Units in spacetime Will Bos <sllu@wsws.sb> - 2018-03-30 10:52 +0000
      Re: Units in spacetime Will Bos <sllu@wsws.sb> - 2018-03-30 11:02 +0000
    Re: Units in spacetime Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-04-03 06:45 +0200

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