Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #424569

Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX

From	Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX
Date	2017-07-12 10:39 +1000
Message-ID	<esl9d6F6vriU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <25027cdd-b225-47dc-8783-f3db74b11d9d@googlegroups.com> <esircrFk77lU1@mid.individual.net> <4c666bbf-b36d-4840-8a15-8f42bc413595@googlegroups.com> <esj63lFmchhU1@mid.individual.net> <59655784$0$53495$c3e8da3$b1356c67@news.astraweb.com>

Show all headers | View raw

On 12/07/2017 8:56 AM, benj wrote:
> On 7/11/2017 1:30 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 11/07/2017 2:01 PM, Peter Riedt wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 12:27:43 PM UTC+10, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 11/07/2017 12:20 PM, Peter Riedt wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 6:54:21 PM UTC+10, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/07/2017 1:25 PM, Peter Riedt wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 12:59:56 PM UTC+10, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2017 12:52 PM, Peter Riedt wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 12:31:37 PM UTC+10, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/07/2017 12:11 PM, Peter Riedt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> According to the experimental work of Stokes and confirmed by 
>>>>>>>>>>> Hertz the aether is  carried along with matter on earth and 
>>>>>>>>>>> near the earth. Only in space is the aether at rest.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To prove that Michelson was correct in assuming that an 
>>>>>>>>>>> aether wind  exists and that it causes the expected effect of 
>>>>>>>>>>> a fringe shift we should carry out the interferometer 
>>>>>>>>>>> experiment in space.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why bother? Relativity has been abundantly confirmed in other 
>>>>>>>>>> ways.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If MMX can be confirmed as a success where does SR stand?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> An actual demonstration that the speed of light varies would 
>>>>>>>> refute SR.
>>>>>>>> However, given the other verifications of SR, there is no 
>>>>>>>> reasonable
>>>>>>>> expectation that an MMX experiment in space would give a 
>>>>>>>> non-null result.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Science progresses by testing theories at their limits. The MMX
>>>>>>>> experiment is done and dusted. Money is not going to spent on 
>>>>>>>> trying it
>>>>>>>> in space, unless you have enough money to do it yourself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The objective is not to prove or disprove SR.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The objective is to obtain the fringe shift predicted by MMX and 
>>>>>>> confirm Stokes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A fringe shift would refute SR.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Absolutely correct. This is why MMX in space is necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Since a fringe shift would refute SR, and since SR is abundantly
>>>> verified, there's every reason to expect that MMX in space would not
>>>> produce a fringe shift. Given the cost of such an experiment, it's not
>>>> going to get done.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> The space programs of many countries waste resources on irrelevant 
>>> projects. You are right, it's not going to get done as it would pull 
>>> the rug from under the feet of thr science elite.
>>>
>> Well, no, it wouldn't. You have no rational basis for thinking that 
>> MMX in space would behave any differently from the way it does on Earth.
>>
>> Sylvia.
> 
> Actually you DO have a rational reason to think MMX would behave 
> differently in space. The whole idea was space was fixed and the Earth 
> was plowing through the aether. Move the experiment to fixed space and 
> lo, you'd expect no "aether drift" And of course you'd measure 
> none...making it a successful experiment. Right? Fist bump through a towel?

If we were pondering the MMX result shortly after it was originally 
done, and seeking to verify or refute the theory of entrainment, we 
might consider doing the experiment in space.

In reality, of course, such an option didn't exist then. Instead, we're 
looking at it more than a century later. In the interim, the theories of 
special relativity and general relativity have been constructed, and 
they have been extensively verified. The aether has no place in these 
theories, and there's no reason now to think that MMX in space would 
behave any differently than MMX on Earth, since any other result would 
conflict with special and general relativity. There is now no reason to 
think that performing MMX in space will serve a useful purpose.

Sylvia.

Thread

The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-08 19:11 -0700
  Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-07-09 12:31 +1000
    Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-08 19:52 -0700
      Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-07-09 12:59 +1000
        Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-07-08 20:08 -0700
          Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-07-09 14:57 +1000
            Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-09 04:34 -0700
        Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-08 20:25 -0700
          Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-07-08 20:59 -0700
            Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-08 21:55 -0700
          Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-07-10 18:54 +1000
            Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-07-10 02:48 -0700
            Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-10 19:20 -0700
              Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-07-11 12:27 +1000
                Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-10 21:01 -0700
                Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-07-11 15:30 +1000
                Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-11 03:27 -0700
                Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-11 05:27 -0700
                Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-07-11 07:51 -0700
                Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2017-07-11 18:56 -0400
                Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-07-12 10:39 +1000
                Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-07-11 22:50 -0700
                Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-11 17:51 -0700
              Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2017-07-11 12:33 -0700
          Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-07-11 17:48 -0700
      Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-08 20:51 -0700
        Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-08 21:52 -0700
          Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-09 06:10 -0700
            Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2017-07-09 06:58 -0700
              Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Ursler Zilberschlag <ursler@zilbersch.org> - 2017-07-09 14:01 +0000
            Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-09 19:19 -0700
              Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-09 21:18 -0700
        Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Eckard B <eckard.blumschein@arcor.de> - 2017-07-08 22:13 -0700
          Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-09 04:34 -0700
          Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-07-09 07:35 -0700
  Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-07-08 19:53 -0700
  Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2017-07-09 09:37 +0200
    Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Ursler Zilberschlag <ursler@zilbersch.org> - 2017-07-09 09:40 +0000
  Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-07-09 07:33 -0700
  Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-07-10 10:36 -0500
    Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-07-10 18:38 +0200
      Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-07-10 18:59 +0200
        Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Vern Garriott <verg@entweoe.te> - 2017-07-10 20:34 +0000
      Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-07-11 11:06 -0500
        Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2017-07-11 09:43 -0700
    Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2017-07-10 14:35 -0700
      Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Steven Carlip <carlip@physics.ucdavis.edu> - 2017-07-11 12:28 -0700
        Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-07-11 17:58 -0700
  Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-07-11 17:46 -0700
  Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-07-12 12:31 -0700
    Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-12 16:18 -0700
      Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2017-07-13 07:23 +0200
  Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-07-12 16:34 -0700
  Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-07-13 02:21 -0700
    Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-07-13 02:23 -0700
      Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-13 06:13 -0700
        Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-13 06:40 -0700
          Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-13 16:13 -0700
        Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-07-13 07:11 -0700
          Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-07-13 22:34 -0700
        Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-07-13 11:52 -0500
          Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-13 16:16 -0700
            Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2017-07-13 17:32 -0700
            Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-07-13 21:55 -0700
              Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-14 19:36 -0700
        Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX gehan.ameresekere@gmail.com - 2017-07-13 22:41 -0700
          Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2017-07-14 08:13 -0700
          Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2017-07-14 11:43 -0500
            Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Garfield Dieter <igdle@rdlge.rf> - 2017-07-14 17:06 +0000
            Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2017-07-14 19:33 -0700
  Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-07-13 10:59 -0700
  Re: The reason for the null result (failure) of MMX numbernumber1964@gmail.com - 2017-07-17 11:30 -0700

csiph-web