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Groups > comp.lang.c > #103553
| From | Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: How to find the problem in the object file |
| Date | 2017-02-10 08:01 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <eg3sk0F1hapU4@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (8 earlier) <ln60ks78rd.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <kfna8a193yb.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> <lnshnt38oz.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <kfnfujo6ib1.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> <o7hcuh$3oh$1@dont-email.me> |
On 02/ 9/17 10:33 PM, David Brown wrote: > On 09/02/17 06:32, Tim Rentsch wrote: >> Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> writes: >> >>> Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> writes: >>> [...] >>> >>> (Context: Removing non-prototype function declarations and definitions >>> from the language.) >>> >>>> My question here is a little different. Knowing that other >>>> people consider them worth keeping, what explains the reaction >>>> of wanting to exclude them anyway? Is it just a "my opinions >>>> count, and other people's don't" sort of attitude, or is it >>>> something else? >>> >>> I didn't say that other people's opinions don't count. I have >>> my opinion, which I've already expressed, that old-style function >>> declarations and definitions should be removed from the language. >> >> I understand these comments. You are expressing a personal value >> judgment. Fine so far. >> >>> In C99, the committee removed implicit int from the language, and it >>> hadn't even been marked as obsolescent. I agree with that decision, >>> and similar reasons apply to non-prototype function declarations >>> and definitions. Removing them would make C a better language. >> >> These comments are what I don't understand. Essentially everyone >> agreed that implicit int could be removed without any serious >> loss, especially since there was something to replace it (eg, >> either 'int' or 'void', depending). Not everyone agrees that >> non-prototype function declarations can be removed without any >> serious loss, and IIUC what you're suggesting is that they be >> removed without any sort of replacement for the capability. The >> two cases don't seem that analogous. So I don't see how you get >> to your conclusion, unless it is something like discounting of >> other people's opinions. >> > > It can be difficult to decide where to draw lines here. Sure, there are > some people who still find non-prototype function declarations to be > useful. But how do those few compare to the numbers of people that make > mistakes, or write poorer quality code, by using non-prototype function > declarations? I have no statistics here, and I suspect neither do you, > Keith, or the C standards committee. > > But I am at a loss to imagine a use of non-prototype functions that > cannot be replaced by prototyped functions and/or macros. You cannot > call a function without knowing the parameters and types - if they don't > match up with the function's definition, then the program will be > incorrect (it will have undefined behaviour). > > At best, non-prototype function declarations might let you do some basic > syntax checking of your code before it can run - but a macro of the form > "#define foo(...)" should work just as well. I believe that it most, or > all, cases where non-prototype function declarations are used, there are > alternative solutions that are usually better or at least not too > onerous. (Feel free to provide counter-examples - maybe my imagination > is limited here.) > > So to my mind, the cases /are/ analogous - it would be a change that can > cause problems for older or "looser" code, but which removes a source of > errors and improves code rigour. That is the view taken by a couple of teams I worked with in the 90s who used C++ compilers to "lint" their code in order to remove that particular source of errors. It is also my opinion! -- Ian
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How to find the problem in the object file Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 05:14 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-01-26 13:22 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-01-26 13:37 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-01-26 13:53 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 06:20 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-01-26 14:28 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 06:48 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-01-26 08:29 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-01-26 16:54 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 09:01 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-01-26 11:20 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-26 23:12 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-01-27 01:32 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-27 09:50 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-01-26 09:19 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-01-26 11:21 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-02 02:39 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 04:08 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 04:31 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-04 10:48 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 11:07 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-02 10:22 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-04 11:00 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-04 14:14 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-04 20:02 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-05 13:39 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-05 13:44 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-05 13:56 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:07 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-05 16:14 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:24 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-06 01:59 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-08 21:32 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-05 13:54 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-06 11:18 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-08 21:32 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-09 10:33 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-09 09:10 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-10 08:01 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-09 09:01 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-09 09:35 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-09 09:57 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-02-09 20:45 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-09 14:59 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-09 15:20 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-09 16:12 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-13 10:21 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-13 07:20 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-13 09:28 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-13 09:55 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-16 03:36 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-02-09 20:56 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-16 07:00 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-16 20:03 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-17 09:22 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-16 13:07 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-24 09:21 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-24 09:02 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-25 09:05 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-24 09:26 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-25 19:38 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-03 07:32 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-04 11:24 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-02 16:56 -0600
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-04 11:12 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-06 04:47 -0600
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-08 21:59 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-09 09:13 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-15 19:28 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-24 17:48 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-25 17:36 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-26 15:51 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 08:29 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-01-26 16:34 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 09:48 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-01-26 08:52 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-01-26 13:53 -0500
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-01-26 11:00 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-26 23:49 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2017-01-27 06:08 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-27 16:20 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-01-26 08:41 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file m.labanowicz@gmail.com - 2017-01-27 01:26 -0800
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