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Groups > comp.lang.c > #103515
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: How to find the problem in the object file |
| Date | 2017-02-09 10:33 +0100 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <o7hcuh$3oh$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <kfnfujwc1vn.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> <ln60ks78rd.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <kfna8a193yb.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> <lnshnt38oz.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <kfnfujo6ib1.fsf@x-alumni2.alumni.caltech.edu> |
On 09/02/17 06:32, Tim Rentsch wrote: > Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> writes: > >> Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> writes: >> [...] >> >> (Context: Removing non-prototype function declarations and definitions >> from the language.) >> >>> My question here is a little different. Knowing that other >>> people consider them worth keeping, what explains the reaction >>> of wanting to exclude them anyway? Is it just a "my opinions >>> count, and other people's don't" sort of attitude, or is it >>> something else? >> >> I didn't say that other people's opinions don't count. I have >> my opinion, which I've already expressed, that old-style function >> declarations and definitions should be removed from the language. > > I understand these comments. You are expressing a personal value > judgment. Fine so far. > >> In C99, the committee removed implicit int from the language, and it >> hadn't even been marked as obsolescent. I agree with that decision, >> and similar reasons apply to non-prototype function declarations >> and definitions. Removing them would make C a better language. > > These comments are what I don't understand. Essentially everyone > agreed that implicit int could be removed without any serious > loss, especially since there was something to replace it (eg, > either 'int' or 'void', depending). Not everyone agrees that > non-prototype function declarations can be removed without any > serious loss, and IIUC what you're suggesting is that they be > removed without any sort of replacement for the capability. The > two cases don't seem that analogous. So I don't see how you get > to your conclusion, unless it is something like discounting of > other people's opinions. > It can be difficult to decide where to draw lines here. Sure, there are some people who still find non-prototype function declarations to be useful. But how do those few compare to the numbers of people that make mistakes, or write poorer quality code, by using non-prototype function declarations? I have no statistics here, and I suspect neither do you, Keith, or the C standards committee. But I am at a loss to imagine a use of non-prototype functions that cannot be replaced by prototyped functions and/or macros. You cannot call a function without knowing the parameters and types - if they don't match up with the function's definition, then the program will be incorrect (it will have undefined behaviour). At best, non-prototype function declarations might let you do some basic syntax checking of your code before it can run - but a macro of the form "#define foo(...)" should work just as well. I believe that it most, or all, cases where non-prototype function declarations are used, there are alternative solutions that are usually better or at least not too onerous. (Feel free to provide counter-examples - maybe my imagination is limited here.) So to my mind, the cases /are/ analogous - it would be a change that can cause problems for older or "looser" code, but which removes a source of errors and improves code rigour. That is not discounting other people's opinions - it is about talking a balanced view of them and concluding that the language would be better overall without this feature, even though it might disappoint some people. (They could stick to C90, C99, or C11 - changes do not affect existing standards.)
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How to find the problem in the object file Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 05:14 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-01-26 13:22 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-01-26 13:37 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-01-26 13:53 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 06:20 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-01-26 14:28 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 06:48 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-01-26 08:29 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-01-26 16:54 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file luser droog <luser.droog@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 09:01 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-01-26 11:20 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-26 23:12 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2017-01-27 01:32 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-27 09:50 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-01-26 09:19 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-01-26 11:21 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-02 02:39 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 04:08 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-02 04:31 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-04 10:48 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2017-02-04 11:07 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-02 10:22 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-04 11:00 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-04 14:14 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-04 20:02 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-05 13:39 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-05 13:44 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-05 13:56 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:07 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-05 16:14 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-06 13:24 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-06 01:59 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-08 21:32 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-05 13:54 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-06 11:18 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-08 21:32 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-09 10:33 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-09 09:10 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-10 08:01 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-09 09:01 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-09 09:35 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-09 09:57 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-02-09 20:45 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-09 14:59 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-09 15:20 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-09 16:12 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-13 10:21 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-02-13 07:20 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-13 09:28 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-13 09:55 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-16 03:36 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Jean-Marc Bourguet <jm@bourguet.org> - 2017-02-09 20:56 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-16 07:00 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-16 20:03 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-17 09:22 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-16 13:07 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-24 09:21 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-24 09:02 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-25 09:05 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-24 09:26 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-02-25 19:38 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2017-02-03 07:32 +1300
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-04 11:24 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-02 16:56 -0600
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-04 11:12 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-06 04:47 -0600
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-08 21:59 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-02-09 09:13 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-15 19:28 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2017-02-24 17:48 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2017-02-25 17:36 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-26 15:51 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 08:29 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2017-01-26 16:34 +0000
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2017-01-26 09:48 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-01-26 08:52 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-01-26 13:53 -0500
Re: How to find the problem in the object file supercat@casperkitty.com - 2017-01-26 11:00 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-26 23:49 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Alla _ <modelling.data@gmail.com> - 2017-01-27 06:08 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-01-27 16:20 +0100
Re: How to find the problem in the object file Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2017-01-26 08:41 -0800
Re: How to find the problem in the object file m.labanowicz@gmail.com - 2017-01-27 01:26 -0800
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