Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics > #587983

Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states?

Show all headers | View raw

nuny@bid.nes wrote:

> On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 2:47:17 AM UTC-7, 7 wrote:
>> nuny@bid.nes wrote:
>> 
>> > On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 10:09:55 AM UTC-7, 7 wrote:
>> >> Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states?
>> >> 
>> >> I'm beginning to doubt this idea of particles popping in and out
>> >> of existence.
>> >> 
>> >> The theory is sound and measurable, but the mechanism is not
>> >> believable.
>> > 
>> >   Believable is only a problem for humans.
>> > 
>> >   Virtual particles are accompanied by their antiparticles. How does
>> >   your state-switch idea account for that?
>> 
>> With great difficulty.
>> 
>> Electromagnets state switch to N and S poles at the same time.
>> 
>> Not saying its the same thing, but therein lies a real world clue.
> 
>   In a sense, yes, when an electromagnet is switched "on" and "off" both
>   poles come into and go out of existence simultaneously like
>   particle-antiparticles appearing and vanishing in pairs. But there needs
>   to be a power source, something not in evidence in particle-antiparticle
>   pairs popping in and out of existence. Maybe that's what you meant by
>   "mechanism"?

Here is a mechanism that doesn't require energy expenditure:

e e- pair production could be due to a 'neutral magnetic particle'
------------------------------------------------------------------

Strange ways to think about it but an e e- pair popping up in empty
space and annihilating rapidly could be viewed as a NS SN pair
of magnets superimposed on each other - or a 'neutral magnetic particle'
moving through space.

When they collide, a pair of e and e- are exchanged to transfer momentum.

That is when we see them :)


 
>   Also, the field strength of an electromagnet is (all other things being
>   equal) directly proportional to the current in it, meaning you can
>   smoothly ramp the strength from nothing to all the current the magnet
>   can take without melting, but particle-antiparticle pairs are
>   all-or-nothing quantum events.
> 
>   If you want, you can pretend the vacuum is full of little
>   "particle-antiparticle generators" that act like electromagnets as
>   above, but where's the power supply and switches?

There is nothing to consume power in the sub atomic scale
otherwise atoms would wiz around each other, loose energy
and clump up for example.

There is activation energy that is well known and
required before states change.

So I am assuming something happens that requires activation energy level
before the state change occurs and particles come in and out existence.


>   A slightly-less-useless analogy is water below its boiling point; random
>   local concentrations of heat can kick water moleculs out as vapor
>   creating bubbles, but those molecules are also equally likely to be
>   reabsorbed by the water. In that view the particles you're talking about
>   are kind of the "vapor pressure" of the vacuum. It also fits nicely with
>   the Big Bang model- in the past the vapor pressure was greater because
>   the water was hotter (when it was boiling the universe was so full of
>   that vapor that light couldn't propagate), but as time goes on the water
>   expands and cools and the vapor pressure drops.
> 
> 
>   Mark L. Fergerson

Back to sci.physics | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-07-02 18:09 +0000
  Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? Mike Duffy <mqduffy001@bell.net> - 2016-07-02 13:36 -0400
    Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-07-02 18:57 +0000
      Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? Mike Duffy <mqduffy001@bell.net> - 2016-07-02 17:18 -0400
        Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-07-04 20:47 +0000
      Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-02 14:44 -0700
  Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-02 14:27 -0700
  Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-07-02 15:49 -0700
    Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-07-03 09:47 +0000
      Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-07-03 15:59 -0700
        Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-07-04 20:57 +0000
    ansatz of virtuality a.k.a bosonics noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 15:46 -0700
  Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-03 22:16 +1000
    Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-07-03 06:38 -0700
      Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-07-03 12:38 -0700
        Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2016-07-05 11:16 -0700
      Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-07-04 15:31 +1000
    Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? 7 <7@enemygadgets.com> - 2016-07-04 20:52 +0000
  Re: Particles popping in and out of existence or switching states? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2016-07-06 02:21 -0400

csiph-web