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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #376532

Re: Why isn't ether confirmed

From Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Why isn't ether confirmed
Date 2016-02-19 19:56 +1100
Message-ID <dio3m1Flfp9U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References <cc24e75c-e8b0-442c-b292-6bf64d8b6d4f@googlegroups.com> <dinvf2Fke0kU1@mid.individual.net> <30af46ff-d85b-45c1-9654-58684c871a13@googlegroups.com>

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On 19/02/2016 6:59 PM, mlwozniak@wp.pl wrote:
> W dniu piątek, 19 lutego 2016 08:44:37 UTC+1 użytkownik Sylvia Else napisał:
>> On 19/02/2016 6:15 PM, mlwozniak@wp.pl wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Użytkownik "Tom Roberts"  napisał w wiadomości grup
>>> dyskusyjnych:hsadnSw7F48cwQjLnZ2dnUU7_82dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> |In science, an experiment confirms a theory when it is consistent with its
>>> |predictions. For a theory to be believable, it is NOT sufficient to have no
>>> |refuting experiments, it is also necessary to have at least some confirming
>>> |measurements [#]. When there are thousands or millions of confirming
>>> |measurements and experiments spanning the theory's domain, and no refuting
>>> ones,
>>> |then the theory is believable and becomes part of scientists' general
>>> |understanding of the world [@]. This understanding, of course, is not case
>>> in
>>> |stone, and in the future a better theory could come along....
>>>
>>> Looks almost logical, doesn't it?
>>> But noone has ever seen a relativist yelling "Lorentz's ether
>>> is confirmed!! Those, who don't believe it , are stupid reality
>>> deniers!!!!!!"
>>> Why.
>>> Because "logic" above isn't any logic. It's just a sorry
>>> excuse for placing good looking words, like "confirmation",
>>> "support" or "evidence" near relativistics idiocies - against
>>> common sense managing these words in a sane people
>>> minds.
>>>
>>> A primitive, common, brainwashing trick. Expected from
>>> brainwashed fanatics.
>>>
>>
>> What are the experimental results that you consider confirms [the
>> existence of] the ether?
>
> Me? The above is Your logic, not mine.
> And, according to it, whatever confirms SR,
> confirms Lorentz's ether too.
> Not just one ether. There are infinite versions
> of Lorentz's ether theory, differently placing
> ether, and according to the logic above they are
> all experimentally confirmed.
>

Physics is about creating theoretical models. Lorentz's ideas about the 
ether lead him to what we now call the Lorentz transformation. However, 
this transformation has nothing at all to say about any underlying ether.

Einstein showed that we can reach the same theoretical model by 
requiring that all inertial frames have the same physical laws.

The experiments verify this theoretical model. They don't go beyond that 
- that's the real of philosophy.

However, Einstein then showed that one can refine the model to include 
the effects of gravity, and experiments verify the refined model. I 
doubt Lorentz could have reached this latter point by expanding on ether 
theory.

In summary, your objections seem based on a flawed notion of what 
physics is.

Sylvia.

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Thread

Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-18 23:15 -0800
  Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-02-19 18:44 +1100
    Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-18 23:59 -0800
      Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2016-02-19 09:42 +0100
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-19 01:02 -0800
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2016-02-19 10:15 +0100
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-19 01:21 -0800
              Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2016-02-19 12:23 +0100
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-19 03:37 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 05:48 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-19 06:04 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 07:24 -0800
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-02-19 22:03 +1100
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Stzepan Zdrobněliny <stzepan282@guadalajara.org> - 2016-02-19 19:20 +0000
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 20:01 -0500
      Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-02-19 19:56 +1100
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-19 01:07 -0800
    Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 00:11 -0800
      Re: Why isn't ether confirmed benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 03:45 -0500
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 09:02 -0600
      Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 08:53 -0600
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 09:48 -0800
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 10:02 -0800
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 12:14 -0600
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 10:29 -0800
              Re: Why isn't ether confirmed David Fuller <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-22 10:30 -0800
              Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 12:43 -0600
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 15:40 -0800
    Re: Why isn't ether confirmed benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 03:49 -0500
      Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-02-19 20:13 +1100
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-20 07:13 -0800
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 09:27 -0600
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed wugi <brol@brol.be> - 2016-02-27 15:08 +0100
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 09:04 -0600
      Re: Why isn't ether confirmed kunz <gx@fp.cdfy.7h> - 2016-02-19 13:08 +0000
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-21 14:20 +0100
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-03-07 20:44 +0100
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed François Theobaldus <fraop@sshimown.org> - 2016-03-07 21:24 +0000
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 14:37 -0500
      Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-19 09:40 -0600
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-19 17:13 +0100
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 09:14 -0600
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-24 09:44 -0600
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed PC <pc468@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-24 16:50 +0000
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-26 08:38 -0600
      Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-02-20 11:11 +0100
    Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-19 14:16 -0800
      Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 15:15 -0800
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-20 07:49 -0800
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 22:08 -0800
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-21 09:09 -0800
              Re: Why isn't ether confirmed jamesl51165@gmail.com - 2016-02-21 09:37 -0800
      Re: Why isn't ether confirmed benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 20:00 -0500
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-20 18:28 -0600
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 09:18 -0600
      Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-20 18:11 -0600
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-21 09:07 -0800
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 10:37 -0800
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-21 11:30 -0800
              Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 15:18 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-23 12:33 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-23 12:54 -0800
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-02-23 15:27 +1100
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-23 12:21 -0800
              Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-23 13:07 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-23 23:11 +0100
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-23 14:18 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-24 08:10 +0100
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-24 09:00 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed PC <pc468@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-24 17:14 +0000
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-24 09:34 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed PC <pc468@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-24 22:10 +0000
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-25 23:22 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed PC <pc468@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-26 12:54 +0000
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-24 22:36 +0100
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-24 18:27 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-25 08:59 +0100
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-25 04:53 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-25 18:17 +0100
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed PC <pc468@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-25 17:43 +0000
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-25 10:55 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed PC <pc468@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-25 19:20 +0000
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-25 10:53 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-24 11:28 -0800
              Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-02-24 11:26 +1100
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-24 11:40 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2016-02-25 16:10 +1100
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-25 07:37 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-25 08:01 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed David Fuller <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-25 10:26 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-25 12:11 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 12:43 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 13:15 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-25 22:21 +0100
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 15:51 -0600
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-25 20:07 -0600
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 18:36 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed David Fuller <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-25 20:33 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-25 23:31 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-26 09:12 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-27 12:08 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-27 22:50 +0100
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-02-27 22:56 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-28 09:50 +0100
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-25 22:18 +0100
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed PC <pc468@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-25 21:45 +0000
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-25 16:56 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 20:45 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-02-25 23:12 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-25 23:35 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-02-26 00:03 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Jon Price <jonelwoodprice@gmail.com> - 2016-02-26 00:07 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-26 00:32 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-26 00:33 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-26 09:41 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-26 15:04 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-27 11:51 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-27 12:09 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-27 13:08 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-27 13:48 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-28 08:46 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-28 10:24 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-28 11:36 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-28 16:03 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-29 12:28 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-28 23:35 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 00:21 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-29 00:32 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-29 04:58 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-29 05:42 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-29 06:04 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-29 06:16 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-29 06:46 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Emigdio Sophronius <emigg@augustvisitors.org> - 2016-02-29 16:39 +0000
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 13:09 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 15:30 -0600
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-29 14:25 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 16:31 -0600
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 16:34 -0600
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 16:35 -0600
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 16:37 -0600
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-29 23:15 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-01 04:40 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-03-01 06:09 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-01 06:23 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 07:19 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-03-01 22:55 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 03:19 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-03-02 03:26 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed paparios <paparios@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 03:38 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-29 16:45 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-03-01 04:38 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-03-07 12:05 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-29 19:50 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-29 23:13 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-26 09:19 -0800
    Re: Why isn't ether confirmed kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2016-02-20 07:07 -0800
  Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-02-20 18:29 -0600
    Re: Why isn't ether confirmed David Fuller <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-02-20 16:35 -0800
    Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2016-02-21 10:09 +0100
    Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 22:29 -0800
      Re: Why isn't ether confirmed "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-22 10:39 +0100
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-22 03:03 -0800
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 05:07 -0800
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-22 05:38 -0800
              Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 06:03 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-22 06:25 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-22 06:37 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-22 06:46 -0800
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 15:25 -0800
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2016-02-22 23:50 -0800
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2016-02-22 09:43 -0800
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Stzepan Zdrobněliny <stzepan282@guadalajara.org> - 2016-02-22 18:50 +0000
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-22 21:14 +0100
        Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-22 13:47 -0800
          Re: Why isn't ether confirmed "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2016-02-23 21:59 +0100
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed Stzepan Zdrobněliny <stzepan282@guadalajara.org> - 2016-02-23 23:07 +0000
            Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-24 11:14 -0800
              Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-24 11:38 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed alsor@interia.pl - 2016-02-24 11:54 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed jamesl51165@gmail.com - 2016-02-24 11:58 -0800
                Re: Why isn't ether confirmed JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2016-02-24 12:47 -0800

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