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Re: Forward declarations

From Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Forward declarations
Date 2015-11-11 12:24 +1300
Message-ID <dafckrF7r8hU3@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References <868218d9-3441-42d4-8006-7684e9f034fa@googlegroups.com> <n1trh2$m32$1@dont-email.me> <68a29662-76c7-42fa-a4a5-8b4efa4a5dae@googlegroups.com>

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Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 5:38:43 PM UTC-5, jacobnavia wrote:
>> Those are *some* of the MANY reasons why you are complaining about a
>> non-problem Rick.
>
> Robert Griesemer, Rob Pike, and Ken Thompson all disagree with you,
> Jacob, as does Google as a corporation in general, as they have several
> Go language programs in place, and not one of them requires forward
> declarations.  Why ... it's a miracle!
>
> From:
>
>      https://golang.org/doc/faq
>
> Quote:
>
>      "What are the guiding principles in the [Go] design?
>
>      "Programming today involves too much bookkeeping, repetition,
>       and clerical work. As Dick Gabriel says, ''Old programs read like
>       quiet conversations between a well-spoken research worker and a
>       well-studied mechanical colleague, not as a debate with a compiler.
>       Who'd have guessed sophistication bought such noise?'' The
>       sophistication is worthwhile -- no one wants to go back to the old
>       languages -- but can it be more quietly achieved?
>
>      "Go attempts to reduce the amount of typing in both senses of the
>       word. Throughout its design, we have tried to reduce clutter and
>       complexity. There are no forward declarations and no header files;
>       everything is declared exactly once. Initialization is expressive,
>       automatic, and easy to use. Syntax is clean and light on keywords."
>
> -----
> "Everything is declared exactly once."
>
> What a novel concept in saving developer time in development at the
> expense of a few microseconds of extra processing time per compilation.

Have you ever tried building a big real world project?

I often make test builds of my main OS and they are far from quick, even 
on a $20K build box.  Headers and declarations get written once and as 
Jacob says, are easy for the human reader to find and read.  My vote 
goes to speeding up builds over a trivial reduction in typing.

-- 
Ian Collins

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Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 14:20 -0800
  Re: Forward declarations jacobnavia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> - 2015-11-10 23:38 +0100
    Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 15:00 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-11 12:24 +1300
        Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 15:53 -0800
          Re: Forward declarations gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-11-11 00:01 +0000
          Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-11 13:46 +1300
            Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 21:05 -0800
    Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-11 00:21 +0000
  Re: Forward declarations Lőrinczy Zsigmond <zsiga@nospam.for.me> - 2015-11-11 10:16 +0100
    Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:19 -0800
  Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-11 15:40 +0100
    Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:21 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:23 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-11 16:29 +0100
        Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-11 07:31 -0800
        Re: Forward declarations Nick Bowler <nbowler@draconx.ca> - 2015-11-13 18:20 +0000
          Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-13 10:39 -0800
            Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-13 19:40 +0000
          Re: Forward declarations Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-14 11:42 -0800
            Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 12:32 -0800
              Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 00:15 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 16:34 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 01:54 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 18:00 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 02:13 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 18:26 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 02:34 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-15 11:11 +0000
              Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 02:36 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 19:25 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 19:37 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-14 20:11 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 10:36 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 06:16 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-15 14:44 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 09:41 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 18:26 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-15 18:42 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 18:53 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 12:58 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 12:49 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-16 10:01 +1300
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-15 14:54 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 09:53 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-15 10:36 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 12:56 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-16 10:04 +1300
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 13:11 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-16 10:25 +1300
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 13:37 -0800
              Re: Forward declarations Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-15 13:13 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 13:16 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-16 00:23 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 16:20 -0800
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-16 00:47 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-16 01:28 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-16 01:57 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-15 21:15 -0500
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-16 11:05 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-16 10:18 -0500
                Re: Forward declarations Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-16 06:44 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-16 11:26 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-16 12:43 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-16 12:20 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-16 14:38 +0100
                Re: Forward declarations Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-16 13:26 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-16 13:53 +0000
                Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-15 18:12 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations pa@see.signature.invalid (Pierre Asselin) - 2015-11-12 01:54 +0000
        Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-12 02:08 -0800
    Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-12 09:58 +0000
  Re: Forward declarations John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 14:46 -0800
    Re: Forward declarations "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-17 14:59 -0800
    Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-17 23:35 +0000
      Re: Forward declarations BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-17 23:40 +0000
        Re: Forward declarations Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-17 19:48 -0800
      Re: Forward declarations glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-18 01:04 +0000

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