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Groups > comp.lang.c > #73224

Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage

From Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage
Date 2015-10-19 07:57 +1300
Message-ID <d8i8d1FrihmU4@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <d8dfovFp0vsU5@mid.individual.net> <mvvp1g$s89$2@dont-email.me> <mvvreq$4pk$1@dont-email.me> <n000bm$kvb$1@dont-email.me> <n00hk1$m73$1@dont-email.me>

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Bartc wrote:
> On 18/10/2015 12:40, David Brown wrote:
>
>> 2. Just because C++ offers plenty of scope for writing incomprehensible
>> crap, does not mean it is obligatory.
>
>> Try understanding the implementation of tuple<>, for example -
>> it is not for the faint of heart.  But there is a very clear separation
>> between implementation of such classes and templates, and their usage.
>> You can /use/ tuples simply and easily, without having to understand how
>> they work - writing such template classes is a specialist job.
>
> Well, it's never going to be clear where the line is drawn between the
> language and the user code. I've looked at some of the tuple stuff, and
> as you predicted, I can't make head nor tail of it. But the same applies
> to trying to use them!
>
> What are we trying to do? If returning multiple values from a function,
> in an easy language I might write:
>
>       return (x,y,z)
>
> And to get to read those multiple values into separate variables, I can
> write:
>
>       (a,b,c) = fn()
>
> No tuples needed, or special bolt-on libraries that no-one comprehends;
> just basic language features.

There you see the difference between your thinking and the C++ more 
abstract way of thinking.  C++ adds a construct (in this case, variadic 
templates) to the language that enables library writers and programmers 
to implement a range of new features.  Giving programmers the tools to 
create their own features has always been the philosophy at the heart of 
C++.

Most programmers don't have the time to create new languages, but they 
do write libraries.

-- 
Ian Collins

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C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 13:29 -0700
  Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Siri Cruz <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-16 13:47 -0700
    Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-16 14:12 -0700
  Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-16 22:15 +0100
    Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 14:38 -0700
      Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-17 10:32 +0100
        Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-17 05:26 -0700
          Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-17 14:17 +0100
            Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-17 06:48 -0700
              Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-17 19:01 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-17 11:17 -0700
    Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-16 15:28 -0700
      Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-17 01:41 +0100
        Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 18:23 -0700
      Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-18 11:04 +0200
  Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-17 10:31 +1300
    Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 14:38 -0700
      Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-17 11:14 +1300
        Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 15:25 -0700
          Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-17 11:31 +1300
            Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 15:38 -0700
              Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-17 12:32 +1300
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-18 11:35 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-18 11:16 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-18 13:40 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-18 17:35 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-18 10:52 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-18 11:02 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-18 19:59 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-18 12:15 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-18 21:41 +0100
                Likeliehood of RDC/SeaAlive implementation (Was: C struct syntax allowance by usage) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-10-19 08:23 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-10-18 14:02 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-10-18 14:19 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-18 21:13 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-18 20:37 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-18 20:27 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-18 23:14 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-10-18 15:09 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-18 16:11 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-19 07:57 +1300
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-18 20:11 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-19 09:19 +1300
          Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-18 11:19 +0200
            Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-18 03:08 -0700
              Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-18 13:52 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-18 05:39 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-18 14:57 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-19 10:31 +1300
              Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-18 15:49 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-18 16:53 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-19 01:50 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-19 02:28 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-19 12:38 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-19 12:09 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-19 14:26 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-19 13:34 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-20 02:36 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-19 05:09 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-19 14:41 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-19 06:08 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-19 15:20 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-19 08:24 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-20 08:43 +1300
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-19 13:00 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-19 20:34 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-20 09:47 +1300
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-19 16:32 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-20 10:37 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-19 21:24 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-20 13:49 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-20 07:33 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-20 15:53 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-20 10:37 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-21 05:05 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-21 02:02 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-21 06:07 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-21 14:15 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-21 09:23 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-21 18:30 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-21 12:13 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-21 21:17 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-21 14:21 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-21 14:55 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-21 15:45 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-22 14:33 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-22 08:54 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-23 15:59 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-23 15:03 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-10-24 10:37 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-21 23:26 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-21 15:56 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-22 05:19 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-22 11:08 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-22 14:58 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-22 14:06 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-22 07:41 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-22 14:00 +0100
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-22 21:00 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-22 14:57 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-21 14:41 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-21 13:01 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-21 13:25 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-22 07:44 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-21 13:41 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-22 05:22 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-22 01:01 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-10-22 08:00 -0500
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-21 09:49 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-10-21 13:20 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-20 15:40 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-20 11:55 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-20 10:34 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-21 05:20 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-21 05:11 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-21 09:47 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-22 05:32 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-22 10:08 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-22 21:45 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-22 19:09 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-22 19:22 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-22 17:49 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-10-22 21:13 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-23 11:36 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-22 20:18 -0500
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-23 11:55 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-23 11:14 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-23 09:09 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-24 09:31 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-10 15:17 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-10 10:39 -0800
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-11-10 11:02 -0800
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-23 15:54 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-23 13:51 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-23 17:41 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-10 15:32 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-23 15:17 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-23 16:34 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-24 09:51 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-10-24 10:01 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-24 12:38 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-24 13:56 -0500
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-24 15:17 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-25 13:47 -0500
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-25 23:46 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-25 07:05 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-10-25 10:59 -0400
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-26 02:24 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-25 11:13 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-10-26 02:58 +0000
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-10-24 11:02 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> - 2015-10-24 20:13 +0200
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-10-24 12:45 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-24 10:30 +1300
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-10-19 12:05 +0100
  Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 15:57 -0700
    Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-10-17 00:54 +0100
      Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 17:19 -0700
      Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-17 15:33 +1300
        Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 19:41 -0700
          Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-17 15:58 +1300
            Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 20:10 -0700
              Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-10-17 16:49 +1300
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 20:59 -0700
                Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-10-18 11:32 +0200
          Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-10-16 23:15 -0400
            Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 20:34 -0700
              Re: C struct syntax allowance by usage "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-10-16 20:45 -0700

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