Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #68036

Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use?

From Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Newsgroups comp.sys.mac.system
Subject Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use?
Date 2014-12-31 14:01 +0000
Organization People for the Ethical Treatment of Pirates
Message-ID <cgiduhFjmgoU3@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (8 earlier) <291220141908482307%nospam@nospam.invalid> <m7v0nh$lau$1@dont-email.me> <54a34b69$0$43027$c3e8da3$5e5e430d@news.astraweb.com> <cgh2qjF99thU1@mid.individual.net> <54a3900f$0$22504$c3e8da3$a9097924@news.astraweb.com>

Show all headers | View raw

On 2014-12-31, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 14-12-30 20:45, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> All SSDs do not work the same way.
>
> The underlying flash technology does. You neez to zap a whole page
> (multiple blocks) to be able to rewrite a single block in that page.
> This means reading the other blocks and rewriting them elsewhere before
> you zap the page and rewrite the 1 block.
>
> That process is called "garbage collection".

The point you seem to be unable or unwilling to grasp is the underlying
technology doesn't make a difference with regard to whether TRIM is
needed, since manufacturers have been including built-in garbage
collection functionality.

>> As you have already been told, as time goes on, more and more SSDs are
>> being designed with internal firmware that effectively handles the
>> problems that TRIM used to address.
>
> So, please explain to me how the SSD knows that a block is free and need
> not be rewritten elsewhere to preserve it when the page the block is
> located in is about to be zapped so another block in that page can be
> updated ?

Ask the manufacturer. All I care about is that it works. : )

> All the articles you have pointed to and your own arguments simply state
> that the SSD disk can worth without TRIM. Nobody is contesting this.

Nope. It has been shown that some SSDs *perform well* without TRIM. And
yet you foolishly continue to argue as if that's not the case.

> What you have not explained is how, without TRIM, your theoretical disk

The SSD that I have been using in my Mac Pro for four years now without
TRIM enabled is *not* theoretical.

> controllers are able to eliminate write amplification and how they can
> magically know whether the OS thinks is block is allocated to a file or not.

No magic is involved. You're acting like an idiot, and I'm done with
you. Enjoy your willful ignorance, fool.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Back to comp.sys.mac.system | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

When will Yosemite be safe to use? Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2014-12-28 21:54 -0800
  Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-12-28 23:58 -0700
    Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2014-12-28 23:31 -0800
      Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-12-29 09:00 +0000
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-12-30 13:45 -0600
      Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-29 04:34 -0500
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-12-30 00:37 +1300
          Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-29 15:12 +0000
            Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-29 17:51 -0500
              Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-29 22:58 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-29 18:24 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-29 23:34 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-12-30 15:05 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-12-31 01:08 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-30 20:17 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-12-29 23:26 +0000
          Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-12-29 23:09 +0000
            Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-29 18:26 -0500
              Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-12-29 18:32 -0500
              Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-29 23:36 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-29 18:55 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-12-29 19:08 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2014-12-30 15:08 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-30 20:03 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-31 01:45 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2014-12-30 22:29 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-31 00:58 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-31 13:56 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-31 16:50 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-31 22:10 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-31 17:44 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-01 00:16 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-01 01:07 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-01 16:10 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? John Albert <j.albert@snet.net> - 2015-01-01 22:04 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-01-02 03:24 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-31 00:56 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-31 14:01 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-30 00:25 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-29 21:07 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-30 03:32 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-12-30 09:41 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-30 16:42 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-29 21:15 -0500
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-30 03:37 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-12-30 02:36 +0000
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-12-29 11:53 -0500
      Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-12-30 00:37 +1300
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? David Fritzinger <email@domain.com> - 2014-12-29 11:40 -0500
          Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2014-12-31 02:18 +0000
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-12-29 23:28 +0000
      Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-29 15:11 +0000
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2014-12-29 08:43 -0800
          Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-29 16:59 +0000
            Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-12-29 09:22 -0800
              Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2014-12-29 12:32 -0800
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-29 21:13 +0000
          Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-12-29 10:41 -0700
  Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Martin Frost me at invalid stanford daht edu <nospam@stanford.edu.invalid> - 2014-12-28 23:51 -0800
  Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-12-29 08:59 +0000
    Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2014-12-29 06:34 -0800
      Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2014-12-29 06:45 -0800
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-12-29 10:31 -0500
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-12-29 09:24 -0700
          Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2014-12-29 08:48 -0800
            Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-12-29 10:42 -0700
              Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2014-12-29 11:57 -0800
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-29 20:09 +0000
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2014-12-29 12:55 -0800
                Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-12-29 17:51 -0700
              Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-29 17:53 -0500
            Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> - 2014-12-29 12:59 -0500
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-12-29 23:14 +0000
      Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-12-29 17:47 -0500
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-29 22:56 +0000
          Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-12-29 23:16 +0000
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-12-29 18:03 -0800
          Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-12-30 18:41 +1300
            Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? "John Varela" <newlamps@verizon.net> - 2015-01-01 14:47 +0000
              Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-01-01 17:53 -0500
      Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-12-29 23:11 +0000
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2014-12-29 18:54 -0800
        Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2014-12-31 08:23 -0800
          Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-12-31 17:43 +0000
  Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-12-29 09:16 -0500
  Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-12-29 10:05 -0500
  Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-12-29 15:09 +0000
  Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Piso Mojado <conserje@trapeador.net> - 2014-12-29 17:42 -0500
    Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Tom Evans <tomevans9890@yahoo.ca> - 2014-12-29 18:57 -0800
      Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Piso Mojado <conserje@trapeador.net> - 2014-12-30 08:41 -0500
  Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? "Mr. Strat" <mrstrat@nospam.gmail.com> - 2014-12-30 11:27 -0800
  Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-01-01 15:52 -0600
    Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-01-01 23:37 +0000
  Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2015-01-02 17:50 -0800
    Re: When will Yosemite be safe to use? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-02 20:55 -0500

csiph-web