Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #153488

Re: high level language idea

From	Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: high level language idea
Date	2015-10-28 17:54 -0400
Organization	National Capital Freenet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Message-ID	<alpine.LNX.2.02.1510281749420.31930@darkstar.example.org> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <n0ooch$t8$1@dont-email.me> <d9a9thFeq5aU26@mid.individual.net> <20151028090411.fe8cf263ad20a228114f2099@eircom.net> <n8623bdjg7fqcvgg7ithlb9em495gsgi9p@4ax.com> <87twpa4wz3.fsf@redbull.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>

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On Wed, 28 Oct 2015, Lawrence Statton wrote:

> Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> writes:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot  wrote:
>>
>>>  ... the 8080 instruction set was very cleanly mapped onto
>>> opcode bits, reading an octal dump was almost as easy as reading a
>>> disassembly. The instruction decoder must have been a very simple piece of
>>> logic.
>>
>> Right - I always thought that students who learned about the 8080/8085
>> seeming only the hexadecimal representation of the code, missed a
>> valuable lesson in computer design.
>>
>> R.W.
>
> Many, many years ago, I was working on a "fantasy" project related to
> the 6502 -- if you took the 8-bit instruction and looked at it as
> 3-bits, 2-bits, 3-bits ( imagine writing in octal where 0xFF was 0737
> instead of 0377 ) then the instruction set became nearly as easy to
> memorize as the 808[05]
>
I remember various articles about that.  Steve Wozniak had his 6502 
disassembler in Dr. Dobbs early on, and it seemed to rely on that.  The 
same scheme was used in his Apple II mini-assembler.  I remember other 
articles in Dr. Dobbs where someone tried to streamline the code even 
more.


> Some of the Z80 instructions were pretty torturously stuck into empty
> holes in the 8080s' set, but others were equally beautiful in their
> symmetry (DDxx and FDxx for the instructions that worked with the IX
> and IY registers, for example -- LD HL,1234 was 21 hex ... LD IX,1234
> was opcode DD21)
>
> The entire set-reset-test bit instructions (stuck in CBxx) were
> beautifully orthogonal.
>
> The misc instructions in EDxx were chaotic and made my eyes bleed.
>
> That I still have so much of the instruction set committed to memory
> makes me simultaneously sad and happy.
>
>
WIth the 6502, a relative handful of op-codes were used for most of the 
work, making it easy for hand assemblying.  I don't remember off hand, but 
I'm sure if I started doing that stuff again, the hex values of those 
common opcodes would come back immediately.

Someone actually ran a program back then to see which were the common 
op-codes, I think this was specifically for the 6502. He ran Microsoft 
BASIC through it, and there too only a handful of op-codes were used.

   Michael

Thread

high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-20 17:47 -0400
  Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-21 01:09 +0000
    Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-21 14:44 -0500
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:15 -0700
  Re: high level language idea davidmylastname@acm.org (David Griffith) - 2015-10-21 01:16 +0000
    Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:26 -0400
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 12:13 -0700
        Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 15:23 -0400
  Re: high level language idea bert <bert.hutchings@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-21 03:53 -0700
    Re: high level language idea rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2015-10-21 13:47 +0000
      Re: high level language idea "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:58 +0100
        Re: high level language idea Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-10-21 10:34 -0400
        Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-21 16:43 +0000
      Re: high level language idea rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2015-10-21 14:46 +0000
    Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:29 -0400
      Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-10-21 14:19 -0500
        Re: high level language idea Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-10-21 15:24 -0400
          Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-10-22 14:13 -0500
            Re: high level language idea "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 09:55 -0500
              Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-23 11:42 -0400
                Re: high level language idea "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 11:48 -0500
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-23 10:47 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-24 21:24 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-24 21:14 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-25 11:31 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-25 18:13 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-23 11:20 -0700
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-23 11:45 -0700
              Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-24 21:11 -0500
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 07:40 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-27 08:30 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-27 09:11 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 12:52 -0400
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 10:22 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 14:37 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-27 19:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 17:46 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 01:22 +0000
                Re: high level language idea jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-28 12:58 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-28 13:59 +0000
                Re: high level language idea jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-29 13:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-29 14:28 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 05:06 +1100
                Re: high level language idea pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-29 19:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 14:21 -0600
                Re: high level language idea pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-29 19:50 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 07:33 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 16:58 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 10:10 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 20:08 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 13:58 -0700
                Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-27 15:53 -0500
                Re: high level language idea - TTF Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 17:11 -0400
                Re: high level language idea - TTF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-28 13:24 +0000
                Re: high level language idea - TTF hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 07:37 -0700
                Re: high level language idea - TTF Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 16:58 +0000
                Re: high level language idea - TTF Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-28 15:10 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 01:22 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-28 08:04 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 11:34 -0400
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 10:14 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 14:30 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-27 19:29 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 16:57 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-27 21:50 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 17:58 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-28 09:04 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-28 09:42 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-10-28 14:55 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-10-28 15:02 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-28 19:15 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-28 13:25 -0600
                Re: high level language idea Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-28 17:54 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-28 19:19 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 21:09 +0000
                Re: high level language idea scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-28 13:36 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-28 17:54 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 20:08 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-28 17:54 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-13 16:05 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-13 17:20 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-11-15 08:14 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-27 19:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 18:00 -0700
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 12:21 -0700
        Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 15:25 -0400
        Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 17:14 -0400
          Re: high level language idea jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-22 12:51 +0000
        Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-21 17:56 -0400
      Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-21 19:43 +0000
        Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:09 -0700
          Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-22 02:52 +0000
          Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-23 16:04 -0500
    Re: high level language idea Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-28 20:19 -0400
  Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 07:35 -0700
    Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-21 19:43 +0000
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:00 -0700
        Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-21 13:35 -0700
          Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:50 -0700
            Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-21 17:56 -0400
              Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-22 07:22 -0700
                Re: high level language idea John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-10-24 00:42 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-24 20:26 -0700
                Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-25 18:36 -0500
            Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-21 15:31 -0700
            Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-20 17:17 -0500
        Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-20 17:00 -0500
          Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-20 22:20 +0000
            Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-21 08:35 -0500
      Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-23 16:00 -0500
        Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-23 21:07 +0000
        Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-20 17:31 -0500
          Re: high level language idea Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-11-25 11:28 -0800
            Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-12-22 14:00 -0500
              Re: high level language idea Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-12-22 11:43 -0800

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