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Re: high level language idea

From "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: high level language idea
Date 2015-10-23 11:48 -0500
Message-ID <d8v6ncFeeskU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (3 earlier) <2p-dnUImsuFZebrLnZ2dnUU7-TWdnZ2d@giganews.com> <v9pf2b5qu755k8vcm2493bmismc2jj2320@4ax.com> <6uudnWwjqLB1qbTLnZ2dnUU7-VOdnZ2d@giganews.com> <d8v03hFcoufU1@mid.individual.net> <1962268566.467307460.451955.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>

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"Peter Flass" wrote:

> Osmium <r124c4u102@comcast.net> wrote:
>> "Jon Elson" wrote:
>>
>>> Roberto Waltman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jon Elson  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ...  The number of bugs in OS/360 were legendary, and they NEVER 
>>>>> stamped
>>>>> them all out.
>>>>
>>>> I recall reading somewhere that the number of bugs was more or less a
>>>> constant, with each new OS release introducing as many new bugs as
>>>> fixes for old ones.
>>> Yes, trying to maintain a huge piece of software, with thousands of
>>> separately assembled routines, some linked to the "kernel" and a bunch
>>> called in as needed, after it has been in use for MANY years, and hacked
>>> on
>>> by hundreds or thousands of programmers, seems REALLY daunting.  The
>>> number
>>> of unintended interactions seems vast.
>>
>> If they did, in fact, accommodate the hackers, it was a failure of
>> management.  They should have provided a written interface when they
>> released the OS to the wild and made it clear that *this* *is* the
>> interface. Not some fascinating stuff that multiple someones had gleaned 
>> by
>> reverse engineering or whatever.
>>
>> IBM was big enough that they could have enforced such a rule.
>>
>>
>
> it was all open-source.  No need to reverse-engineer anything. As late as
> MVS/XA I had a VSAM open exit where the call location had to be gleaned by
> looking at the fiche and disassembling the PL/S module, although it 
> started
> out as a straightforward source update in MVS/370.
>
> I think JES2, or most of it, is still distributed as source, because so
> many users had so many different mods.  Out JES guy had tons and knew the
> jes code i side and out.

If I understand that, the implied interface was the released code; if your 
code works with our code, all is good. That sounds like a prescription for 
chaos. and I foresee problems, *huge* problems. This was a major decision my 
management, perhaps it was tacit, but it was still a management decision.

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high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-20 17:47 -0400
  Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-21 01:09 +0000
    Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-21 14:44 -0500
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:15 -0700
  Re: high level language idea davidmylastname@acm.org (David Griffith) - 2015-10-21 01:16 +0000
    Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:26 -0400
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 12:13 -0700
        Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 15:23 -0400
  Re: high level language idea bert <bert.hutchings@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-21 03:53 -0700
    Re: high level language idea rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2015-10-21 13:47 +0000
      Re: high level language idea "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:58 +0100
        Re: high level language idea Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-10-21 10:34 -0400
        Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-21 16:43 +0000
      Re: high level language idea rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2015-10-21 14:46 +0000
    Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:29 -0400
      Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-10-21 14:19 -0500
        Re: high level language idea Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-10-21 15:24 -0400
          Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-10-22 14:13 -0500
            Re: high level language idea "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 09:55 -0500
              Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-23 11:42 -0400
                Re: high level language idea "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 11:48 -0500
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-23 10:47 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-24 21:24 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-24 21:14 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-25 11:31 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-25 18:13 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-23 11:20 -0700
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-23 11:45 -0700
              Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-24 21:11 -0500
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 07:40 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-27 08:30 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-27 09:11 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 12:52 -0400
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 10:22 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 14:37 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-27 19:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 17:46 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 01:22 +0000
                Re: high level language idea jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-28 12:58 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-28 13:59 +0000
                Re: high level language idea jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-29 13:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-29 14:28 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 05:06 +1100
                Re: high level language idea pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-29 19:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 14:21 -0600
                Re: high level language idea pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-29 19:50 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 07:33 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 16:58 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 10:10 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 20:08 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 13:58 -0700
                Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-27 15:53 -0500
                Re: high level language idea - TTF Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 17:11 -0400
                Re: high level language idea - TTF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-28 13:24 +0000
                Re: high level language idea - TTF hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 07:37 -0700
                Re: high level language idea - TTF Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 16:58 +0000
                Re: high level language idea - TTF Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-28 15:10 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 01:22 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-28 08:04 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 11:34 -0400
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 10:14 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 14:30 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-27 19:29 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 16:57 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-27 21:50 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 17:58 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-28 09:04 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-28 09:42 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-10-28 14:55 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-10-28 15:02 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-28 19:15 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-28 13:25 -0600
                Re: high level language idea Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-28 17:54 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-28 19:19 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 21:09 +0000
                Re: high level language idea scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-28 13:36 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-28 17:54 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 20:08 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-28 17:54 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-13 16:05 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-13 17:20 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-11-15 08:14 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-27 19:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 18:00 -0700
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 12:21 -0700
        Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 15:25 -0400
        Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 17:14 -0400
          Re: high level language idea jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-22 12:51 +0000
        Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-21 17:56 -0400
      Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-21 19:43 +0000
        Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:09 -0700
          Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-22 02:52 +0000
          Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-23 16:04 -0500
    Re: high level language idea Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-28 20:19 -0400
  Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 07:35 -0700
    Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-21 19:43 +0000
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:00 -0700
        Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-21 13:35 -0700
          Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:50 -0700
            Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-21 17:56 -0400
              Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-22 07:22 -0700
                Re: high level language idea John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-10-24 00:42 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-24 20:26 -0700
                Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-25 18:36 -0500
            Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-21 15:31 -0700
            Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-20 17:17 -0500
        Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-20 17:00 -0500
          Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-20 22:20 +0000
            Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-21 08:35 -0500
      Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-23 16:00 -0500
        Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-23 21:07 +0000
        Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-20 17:31 -0500
          Re: high level language idea Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-11-25 11:28 -0800
            Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-12-22 14:00 -0500
              Re: high level language idea Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-12-22 11:43 -0800

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