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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #161493

Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break

From Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break
Date 2016-03-26 09:55 +0100
Organization Me, Myself and I
Message-ID <acvhsc-3v.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> (permalink)
References <PM00052E54A86D1850@users-ibook-g4-6.unknown.dom> <56f0f20d.1619358@nntp2.rawbw.com> <PM00052EA36003CE62@aca410ea.ipt.aol.com> <56f63b00.8472873@nntp2.rawbw.com>

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In article <56f63b00.8472873@nntp2.rawbw.com>, Questor <usenet@only.tnx> wrote:
>On 22 Mar 2016 13:40:37 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>Questor wrote:
>>> On 19 Mar 2016 13:23:27 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>If you did think you needed DDT, then you would have to go
>>>>to a TOPS-20 system,  and type:
>>>>
>>>>GET ADVENT
>>>>DDT
>>>>^C
>>>>SAVE ADVENT
>>>
>>> You can do the same thing on TOPS-10 and you don't need to save the image
>>with
>>> DDT.
>>>
>>>>Then you can look using DDT commands but there won't be
>>>>symbols with this program.
>>>
>>> Whether or not the .EXE has symbols included has nothing to do with loading
>>DDT.
>>>
>>>>depending on the code.  One does not need DDT loaded with
>>>>the EXE to do any of the debugging.  I probably would not
>>>>want DDT in my address space because it's extra code
>>>>to ignore and it does strange things with one's adddress space.
>>>
>>> DDT doesn't do "strange things" with the address space.  The DDT command
>>> loads DDT into the top of the address space and transfers program control to
>>> its start address.
>>
>>Having DDT loaded with the program on TOPS-10 makes the exe writable and
>>the addresses of the program's code and data may not be the same absolute
>>addresses when DDT is not part of the EXE.
>
>Having DDT loaded with the program does not make the .EXE writeable.
>Having DDT loaded does not change the addresses of code or data.
>Neither of these are relevant to the discussion at hand.

It is the other way around; at least in Tops20. You must have the
image readable (not execute-only) to load DDT on it. With DDT loaded
you can then save it as a different .EXE.

>>This is a pure EXE.  You don't know if absolute addressing was used or
>>if SETUWP was used if the points were kept in the EXE.
>
>Please tell us, what would be an impure .EXE?

In Tops20, it is one that has been modified since the initial load from
disk. By executing, patching or loading of debuggers, like DDT.

>An .EXE file by definition uses absolute addresses.  That's what LINK does.  It
>takes as input the relocatable code from .REL files and resolves the addresses.
>The resulting .EXE can be slapped directly into memory with a series of block
>transfers and then executed.
>
>It is highly unlike a SETUWP would be used in a FORTRAN program.
>
>Again, none of this is relevant to the discussion at hand.  You demonstrate
>no comprehension of the issue, and rather than admit your ignorance, you throw
>out unrelated crap and pretend you know what you're talking about.
>
>
>>Instead of trying to "prove" me wrong, why don't you try debugging
>>the fucking program?
>
>No one has to prove you wrong.  It's been clearly demonstrated.  You are
>either too obstinate, too ignorant -- or both -- to recognize it.
>
>Go back and read the code fragment again.  It's FORTRAN, even you should
>be able to figure it out.  To begin with, the program doesn't even store the
>score.  It's only calculated when needed.

And this is why you need address breaks to figure it out rapidly when you only
have the binary. Once you find the calculation code you can go look for
references to the various variables it uses.

The pdp10 code compiled from fortran code was pretty easy to understand, at least
on lower levels of optimisation.

-- mrr

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Thread

Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-19 13:23 +0000
  Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-20 06:46 +1100
    Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-20 13:56 +0000
      Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-21 04:51 +1100
        Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-21 12:24 +0000
          Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-21 13:53 +0100
            Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-22 04:23 +1100
              Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-23 05:01 +1100
            Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Rob Doyle <radioengr@gmail.com> - 2016-03-22 01:50 -0700
              Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-22 13:22 +0100
              Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
            Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
              Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-03-26 07:32 +0000
          Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-22 04:24 +1100
          Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-22 10:20 -0500
            Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-23 13:23 +0000
  Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-21 13:58 +0000
  Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-21 14:00 +0000
    Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
      Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-22 10:24 -0500
  Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-03-22 07:19 +0000
  Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-03-22 07:19 +0000
    Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-22 13:20 +0100
    Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-22 13:40 +0000
      Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-23 04:55 +1100
      Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-03-26 07:32 +0000
        Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-26 09:55 +0100
          Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-26 13:24 +0000
            Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-27 04:11 +1100
              Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-27 13:26 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-28 04:25 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-28 15:58 -0500
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-29 13:55 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-03-29 17:17 +0200
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-29 16:17 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-03-29 17:57 +0100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-29 17:14 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-03-29 17:17 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-29 17:48 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-03-29 21:35 +0100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-29 23:20 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-03-30 05:33 +0100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-30 17:23 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-03-29 19:28 +0100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-31 11:10 -0500
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Ibmekon <Ibmekon> - 2016-03-31 19:20 +0100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-30 16:32 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-03-30 16:55 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 04:09 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-03-31 06:22 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-03-31 11:13 -0500
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break JimP. <blue@cwahi.net> - 2016-03-31 21:00 -0500
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "764hho" <764hho@nospam.com> - 2016-03-31 03:49 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-30 05:29 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-30 13:58 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-03-31 03:41 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-03-31 12:41 +0000
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-04-01 05:03 +1100
                Re: Debugging Adventure using Address Break usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2016-04-15 08:34 +0000

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