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Re: ANS Forth test programs

From Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Subject Re: ANS Forth test programs
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
References (15 earlier) <cf1379ea-3034-4d2f-bb87-ddff06e1a890@googlegroups.com> <53ec8c47.175756872@news.demon.co.uk> <2e2a3476-c02b-4e82-87ef-4a1759bc992c@googlegroups.com> <53edcb36.23349808@news.demon.co.uk> <44610cf4-4001-4037-919a-f8ec61c6455b@googlegroups.com>
Message-ID <ZqGdncuewOhUm3LOnZ2dnUU7-R-dnZ2d@supernews.com> (permalink)
Date 2014-08-16 02:22 -0500

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hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, August 15, 2014 2:13:42 AM UTC-7, Stephen Pelc wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:06:14 -0700 (PDT), hughaguilar96@yahoo.com
>> wrote:
>> >On Thursday, August 14, 2014 3:24:01 AM UTC-7, Stephen Pelc wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 21:17:28 -0700 (PDT), hughaguilar96@yahoo.com
>> >> wrote:
>> 
>> >> >WTF??? Are you saying that your cross-compiler simulates the target process=
>> >> >or at compile-time??? That is not necessary!
>> 
>> >> Far be it from me to contradict a world authority, but you are wrong.
>> 
>> >Just to clarify --- you are saying that you believe it is necessary to
>> > simulate the execution of the target processor in order to compile to
>> >the target processor?
>> 
>> Of course you do! Words like @ ! and friends have to be simulated.
>> Opcode emulation is not necessary. 
> 
> To simulate the execution of a processor, is done by opcode
> emulation (typically with a CASE statements). You state that you do
> simulate the execution of the target processor, but that opcode
> emulation is not necessary.

Of course it isn't.  If the target processor is running Forth, all you
have to do is simulate it running Forth.  So, you have to define @ and
!  working with the correct endianness, wordsize, and so on.  No-one
is going to need the target assembler to generate words to use at
compile time. of course, so there is absolutely no need to simulate
target opcodes.

> Way back in the 1980s there was a case in which some guys were
> programming a 6502 board in Forth, but they were having difficulty
> because there wasn't enough memory for both the Forth compiler and
> the application program, and the 1Mhz processor ran so slowly that
> it took upwards of an hour to compile the program. Unfortunately,
> they didn't know how to write a cross-compiler.
> 
> I don't know if this story about the 6502 "cross-compiler" that
> required simulating a 6502 is true or not

It doesn't take an hour to generate 64k of Forth on a 6502, so we can
scratch that story.

>> However, in your example of a PIC24, a cross compiler has to allow
>> for a Harvard architecture with 16 bit addess units in code space
>> and 8 bit address units in data space.
> 
> The PIC24 has a 24-bit address-bus for code memory, and a 16-bit
> address-bus for data memory.

That is a non sequitur.

> I am very unimpressed with comp.lang.forth. This seems to be a forum
> for people to pretend to be world experts on subjects that they know
> nothing about. Earlier in this thread we had Alex McDonald totally
> baffled as to why using the data stack as the control stack is a
> problem, and why this requires me to hold my data in local variables
> in my meta-compiling words.

Everybody is baffled as to why using the data stack as the control
flow stack is a problem, and how it can require you to use local
variables in metacompling words.

Andrew.

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Thread

ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-03 23:34 +0100
  Re: ANS Forth test programs mhx@iae.nl - 2014-08-03 22:33 -0700
    Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-04 08:47 +0100
      Re: ANS Forth test programs "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-08-04 05:10 -0400
        Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-05 17:33 +0100
      Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-21 16:01 +0000
        Re: ANS Forth test programs anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-08-21 16:20 +0000
          Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-21 21:47 +0000
            Re: ANS Forth test programs anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-08-22 12:33 +0000
          Re: ANS Forth test programs albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-08-22 19:23 +0000
        Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-22 12:28 +0100
          Re: ANS Forth test programs "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-08-22 13:35 +0100
            Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-22 17:11 +0100
          Re: ANS Forth test programs anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-08-22 12:47 +0000
    Re: ANS Forth test programs Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-08-04 14:26 +0200
      Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-05 17:35 +0100
        Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-05 20:06 -0700
          Re: ANS Forth test programs "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-08-06 16:43 -0400
          Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-07 10:23 +0100
            Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-07 18:29 -0700
              Re: ANS Forth test programs "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-08-07 23:28 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-08-08 04:25 -0500
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-08 08:08 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-08-08 10:49 -0500
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-08 19:54 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-08-08 16:27 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-08 10:47 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-08-08 22:34 +0200
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-08 21:06 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-08 23:59 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-09 01:35 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-08-09 04:41 -0500
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-09 17:53 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-08-10 03:25 -0500
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-10 03:19 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2014-08-10 05:28 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 22:43 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-13 09:46 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-13 21:17 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-14 10:24 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-08-14 12:10 +0100
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-14 06:02 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-14 23:48 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-14 20:06 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-15 09:13 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-15 21:07 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-08-16 02:22 -0500
                Re: ANS Forth test programs "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-08-16 04:43 -0400
                Re: ANS Forth test programs stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-08-16 20:37 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2014-08-12 16:55 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-08-12 22:47 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-08-13 10:43 +0100
                Re: ANS Forth test programs bruce.mcfarling@gmail.com - 2014-08-16 10:02 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-08-09 11:09 +0000
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-08-09 13:34 +0200
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-08-09 21:45 +0200
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-08 13:39 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-08-10 03:21 +0100
                Re: ANS Forth test programs "Bill Leary" <Bill_Leary@msn.com> - 2014-08-08 10:34 -0400
              Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-08 10:18 +0100
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-08 12:48 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-08 21:46 +0100
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-08 14:14 -0700
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-08 23:06 +0100
                Re: ANS Forth test programs Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-08-09 00:40 +0200
                Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-08 18:17 -0700
  Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-06 14:50 -0700
    Re: ANS Forth test programs Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-08-07 10:12 +0100
      Re: ANS Forth test programs hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-08-07 16:07 -0700
  Re: ANS Forth test programs francois.ganza@wanadoo.fr - 2014-08-08 13:40 -0700

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