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Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics

From	benj <nobody@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.electromag
Subject	Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics
References	(14 earlier) <Qfivx.23994$VD4.1622@fx07.iad> <fc54e4f7-e7d5-4a21-a503-7d7a5063138c@googlegroups.com> <55be016c$0$2907$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl> <82b16784-0073-4594-aa16-50f3482a4507@googlegroups.com> <55bf128b$0$2881$e4fe514c@news2.news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID	<Q0Ovx.66857$bp4.48198@fx25.iad> (permalink)
Organization	TeraNews.com
Date	2015-08-03 14:02 -0400

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On 08/03/2015 03:04 AM, Jos Bergervoet wrote:
> On 8/3/2015 3:23 AM, Timo Nieminen wrote:
>> On Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 9:39:57 PM UTC+10, Jos Bergervoet wrote:
>>> On 8/2/2015 8:27 AM, Timo Nieminen wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 3:53:54 PM UTC+10, benj wrote:
>>>    ...
>>>> http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0609163.pdf
>>>
>>> This author (Hrvoje Nikoli´c) seems to have some axe to grind.
>>
>> Axe or no axe, I think his point about wave-particle duality is sound.
>
> Yes, most of his points are correctly addressing some annoying
> myths. But then he makes the strange claim that the main reason
> for the existence of myths is: (top of page 44)
>   "QM does not give a clear answer to the question what, if
>    anything, objective reality is."
> which would distinguish it, as he claims (admittedly adding "in
> my opinion", p. 43, l. -5) from classical physics.
>
> But what is the difference?
> Classical physics presents us with moving point particles and
> precisely defined E and B-field values at each point in space.
> QFT shows us a distribution of field values in each point of
> space described by an amplitude functional (correlating them
> with distributions in other points, but in a way that preserves
> causality).
>
> QFT is more complex (pun intended) but both approaches present
> us (only) with a mathematical description of some state. In
> both cases we could just accept the possibility that this *is*
> reality.
>
> Of course we still need to align it with *subjective* reality,
> which prevents us to see the whole reality. And in the QFT case
> this gives the interesting result of the *apparent* collapse
> of the wave function:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse

While I can admit the possibility that a mathematical description 
(either classical or QFT might represent reality, the fact that 
mathematics is created by fantasy in my opinion makes it rather unlikely 
that mathematics is more real than reality as seems to be widely 
accepted today.

Personally, I find QM rather epicyclic in that it has lots of 
"explanations" going on, but what it really needs is a new point of view 
that cuts through it all the way say putting the sun in the center of 
the system created understanding of all the odd motions in the sky. 
Unfortunately I don't have that new viewpoint, and so far I haven't seen 
anyone else find it either, But I have confidence that there certainly 
could be one. More confidence in fact than I have that math is more real 
than reality.

Wave function "collapse"? Say Jos, as I recall the last time I used that 
term you got all over my case about how it was an "old" description that 
nobody uses anymore, I think we both know the most important rule of 
life is that when it comes to software and physics jargon, it is VERY 
important to always have the "latest version".

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Thread

Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-07-23 19:21 -0700
  Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-07-25 11:31 -0400
    Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-07-25 19:30 -0700
  Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-07-25 11:50 -0400
  Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-07-25 12:12 -0400
    Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-07-25 21:02 +0200
  Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-07-25 12:26 -0400
    Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-07-25 19:25 -0700
  Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-07-25 20:58 +0200
  Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-07-27 17:52 -0700
    Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-07-29 16:59 -0400
      Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-07-30 13:08 +0200
    Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-07-30 13:15 +0200
    Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-07-30 15:37 -0400
    Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 01:53 -0400
      Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-02 11:38 +0200
        Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-08-02 13:26 -0400
          Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-08-06 12:14 -0400
      Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-02 13:39 +0200
        Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-08-02 18:23 -0700
          Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 02:33 -0400
          Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-03 09:04 +0200
            Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 14:02 -0400
              Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-03 20:39 +0200
              Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-05 08:40 +0200
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-05 08:59 +0200
          Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-04 08:55 +0200
      Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-08-01 23:27 -0700
      Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-08-02 18:20 -0700
        Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-08-06 12:39 -0400
          Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-08-06 16:30 -0700
            Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-08-07 18:02 -0400
              Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-08-07 18:50 -0700
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics "Bill Miller" <kt4ye@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-09 15:55 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-08-11 12:11 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-11 21:22 +0200
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-08-11 15:02 -0700
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-08-12 11:29 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics shelfstackerextraordinaire@gmail.com - 2015-08-12 16:20 -0700
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-08-13 10:09 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-14 19:06 +0200
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 03:29 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-15 10:48 +0200
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 04:12 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-17 19:49 +0200
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 02:01 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-19 19:33 +0200
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 02:02 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-22 09:41 +0200
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 15:17 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-08-24 10:51 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 15:12 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-08-24 16:35 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-08-24 14:16 -0700
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics "Bill Miller" <kt4ye@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-24 21:16 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-25 08:15 +0200
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-08-15 10:47 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-15 19:52 +0200
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 03:51 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-08-17 11:10 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 02:31 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-08-17 15:49 -0700
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics "Bill Miller" <kt4ye@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-17 20:24 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 07:30 +0200
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 02:13 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-08-17 23:27 -0700
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 02:43 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-08-18 10:20 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-19 19:18 +0200
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-20 01:46 -0400
                Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-14 19:06 +0200
          Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-08-06 16:31 -0700
            Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Bill Miller <KT4YE@YAHOO.COM> - 2015-08-07 18:05 -0400
          Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Jos Bergervoet <jos.bergervoet@xs4all.nl> - 2015-08-08 13:21 +0200
    Re: Unsolved Questions in Physics Timo Nieminen <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-08-01 16:08 -0700

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