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Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms?

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On 10/5/2026 3:18 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Oct 2026 19:46:56 +0200, Silvano
> <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> wrote:
> 
>> Tony Cooper hat am 04.10.2026 um 17:23 geschrieben:
>>> On Sun, 4 Oct 2026 10:41:57 +0800, Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson
>>> <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear alt.usage.english,
>>>>
>>>> Thinking of /the proof is in the pudding/ for a context outside the
>>>> scope of Usenet, I am now wondering how one would increase his or her
>>>> knowledge of idioms, without having to know each and every one before
>>>> hand?
>>>
>>>
>>> The only reason I can think of to acquire a "knowlege of idioms" is to
>>> have a source that would provide a more colorful, and succinct, way of
>>> saying something.
>>
>>
>> Foreigners who want to improve their English often need things a native
>> speaker like you doesn't. Although, a knowledge of cricket and rugby
>> idioms might help even you when reading some texts of English authors
>> (wooden spoon), just like a knowledge of baseball idioms might help many
>> Brits when reading some texts of US authors.
>>
> 
> I would differentiate "terms" and "idioms".  To understand a
> description of an event in sports could rquire a knowledge of the
> terms used, but terms aren't idioms.
> 
> To be an idiom, it should be an expression that cannot be understood
> from the individual meanings of its components.
> 
> There are many sports terms that don't make sense to people who are
> not familiar with that sport, but they are not idioms.  You've got to
> know the sport to know what an "edge rusher" (American football), a
> "power forward" (basketball), a "shortstop" (baseball), "first slip"
> (cricket), "hooker" (rugby), "libero" (volleyball), or a "striker
> (soccer) is.  A book on idoms would not explain those terms.

A book on the sport might, on the one hand.

> The "wooden spoon" is a historical term, but not an idiom.  It's like
> winning an "Oscar".

On the other golf, I've used /on par/ since long before I knew it was a
golfing term.  We sometimes score a goal in things that isn't football.
But that's not too specific to football, as one might score a goal in
knife throwing too.  I guess.

Do you ever kill two birds with one stone?  I admit I have never hunted
birds with a sling.


Best wishes, and happy real life metaphors!
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 10:41 +0800
  Chauserian Poetry (was: Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms?) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 10:53 +0800
    Re: Chauserian Poetry occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-04 09:07 +0200
      Re: Chiuicerian Poetry Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 19:18 +0800
        Re: Chiuicerian Poetry occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2026-10-04 13:32 +0200
  Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-04 15:16 +1100
    Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 12:26 +0800
  Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-04 09:54 +0200
    Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-04 20:56 +1100
      Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 18:56 +0800
        Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-04 13:22 +0200
          Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical  dictionaries of idioms? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-04 11:18 -0700
        Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-05 10:17 +1100
        Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-10-06 12:54 +0200
      Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-04 11:22 -0700
      Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-04 19:53 +0100
    Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-04 18:59 +0800
      Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-04 11:13 +0000
      Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-04 13:25 +0200
  Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-04 11:05 +0000
  Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com> - 2026-10-04 13:29 +0000
  Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-04 11:23 -0400
    Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-04 13:46 -0400
      Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-05 02:54 +0800
        Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-04 21:30 +0200
        Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? "Anders D. Nygaard" <news2012adn@google.com> - 2026-10-04 22:56 +0200
      Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-04 15:23 -0400
        Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-05 01:29 +0100
          Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 00:02 -0400
            Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-05 11:39 -0400
              Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 13:23 -0400
                Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-10-05 16:10 -0400
                Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-06 08:52 +1100
              Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-05 21:26 +0100
                Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 18:30 -0400
            Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-05 21:17 +0100
              Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-06 08:54 +1100
              Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 18:43 -0400
                Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-06 02:19 +0100
              Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical   dictionaries of idioms? Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-10-06 08:57 +0100
      Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-05 10:41 +1100
        Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-10-05 09:41 +0200
      Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-05 04:26 +0200
        Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-05 21:29 +0100
    Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Silvano <Silvano@noncisonopernessuno.it> - 2026-10-04 19:46 +0200
      Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-05 02:58 +0800
      Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-10-04 15:18 -0400
        Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-10-05 06:50 +0800
          Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-05 10:35 +1100
        Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-10-05 04:32 +0200
          Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-05 21:32 +0100
            Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-10-06 08:57 +1100
              Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> - 2026-10-06 02:22 +0100
  Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical dictionaries of idioms? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-04 11:11 -0700
    Re: The proof is in the pudding, or where to get physical  dictionaries of idioms? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2026-10-07 12:54 -0700

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