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Re: Journald's qualities (was: Selective rotation of journald logs)

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Stefan Monnier wrote: 
> Makes one wonder why they don't use naive append-only "plain text" logs
> (tho with appropriate delimiters (maybe some kind of CSV) to make
> searches more reliable than with old-style plain text logs)?
> 
> What are the advantages of journald's representation?
> I mean, to justify the slow search and large disk space usage, there is
> presumably some upside for some use cases.  I can see some weak argument
> against Sqlite based on the size of Sqlite, but what are the advantages
> of journald's representation compared to a naive one?


systemd's design philosophy, observed from the outside, goes
like this:

- assume that the machine is a laptop or mobile device that is
always changing: moves from network to network, plugs and
unplugs devices, goes to sleep and is woken up

- disk space is limited, but cpu time is free

- the network knows better than local config

- all services serve the local user's desktop, primarily

- the local user doesn't know anything but can call on a remote
  sysadmin

- systemd is the best at doing anything, so it should do
everything.

If all of these assumptions match up with your particular use
case, systemd is happy.


Long-term logs are for servers, so systemd doesn't want them.
systemd thinks logs are for finding out what just happened
recently. If you wanted long-term logs, obviously you would
configure a central repository on some other machine and ship
them across the network.


I have nothing but praise for the Debian maintainers of rsyslog,
who have arranged it so that installing rsyslog immediately does
appropriate things to pull data out of systemd.

-dsr-

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Selective rotation of journald logs Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2024-02-23 11:20 +0100
  Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Mariusz Gronczewski <xani@devrandom.pl> - 2024-02-23 12:50 +0100
    Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2024-02-23 13:10 +0100
      Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Mariusz Gronczewski <xani@devrandom.pl> - 2024-02-23 13:50 +0100
        Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2024-02-23 13:50 +0100
          Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-23 14:00 +0100
            Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2024-02-23 14:10 +0100
              Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-23 14:10 +0100
                Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2024-02-23 14:20 +0100
                Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Mariusz Gronczewski <xani@devrandom.pl> - 2024-02-23 14:30 +0100
              Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Mariusz Gronczewski <xani@devrandom.pl> - 2024-02-23 14:20 +0100
                Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2024-02-23 14:30 +0100
                Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Mariusz Gronczewski <xani@devrandom.pl> - 2024-02-23 14:40 +0100
          Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Mariusz Gronczewski <xani@devrandom.pl> - 2024-02-23 14:10 +0100
        Journald's qualities (was: Selective rotation of journald logs) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-23 16:30 +0100
          Re: Journald's qualities (was: Selective rotation of journald logs) Mariusz Gronczewski <xani@devrandom.pl> - 2024-02-23 18:20 +0100
            Re: Journald's qualities Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-23 21:40 +0100
              Re: Journald's qualities The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-24 01:20 +0100
                Re: Journald's qualities Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-02-24 05:10 +0100
                Re: Journald's qualities Mariusz Gronczewski <xani@devrandom.pl> - 2024-02-24 11:00 +0100
                Re: Journald's qualities Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-24 05:20 +0100
          Re: Journald's qualities (was: Selective rotation of journald logs) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2024-02-23 19:00 +0100
            Re: Journald's qualities Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-23 21:50 +0100
            Re: Journald's qualities (was: Selective rotation of journald logs) Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2024-02-23 22:10 +0100
              Re: Journald's qualities (was: Selective rotation of journald logs) Mariusz Gronczewski <xani@devrandom.pl> - 2024-02-24 11:10 +0100
            Re: Journald's qualities (was: Selective rotation of journald logs) Mariusz Gronczewski <xani@devrandom.pl> - 2024-02-24 10:40 +0100
              Re: Journald's qualities Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2024-02-26 12:20 +0100
                Re: Journald's qualities Mariusz Gronczewski <xani@devrandom.pl> - 2024-02-26 12:40 +0100
                Re: Journald's qualities Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-02-26 17:10 +0100
                Re: Journald's qualities Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2024-02-27 10:50 +0100
  Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-02-23 16:40 +0100
    Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-02-25 04:00 +0100
    Re: Selective rotation of journald logs Nicolas George <george@nsup.org> - 2024-02-26 15:50 +0100

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