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Groups > linux.debian.devel > #112396

Re: ifupdown maintenance

From Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi>
Newsgroups linux.debian.devel
Subject Re: ifupdown maintenance
Date 2024-07-07 17:30 +0200
Message-ID <IXBZT-uhA-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References <IXAU9-tEG-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <IXAU9-tEG-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization linux.* mail to news gateway

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su 7. heinäk. 2024 klo 16.56 Daniel Gröber (dxld@darkboxed.org) kirjoitti:
> On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 12:38:34PM +0300, Martin-Éric Racine wrote:
> > While discussing pending issues with Santiago (ifupdown's de-facto
> > maintainer), we came to the conclusion that team maintenance of just
> > one ifupdown implementation would be a better way to go than having 3
> > different implementations of the same.
>
> Is that discussion public? What's the reasoning of that conclusion?

Not until now.

Basically, there's pending issues involving ifupdown and DHCP clients
that I've randomly discussed with Santiago.

One of these is to swap the default DHCP client (isc-dhcp-client
i.e.dhclient to dhcpcd-base).

Another is the plethora of unresolved issues with ifupdown and
Santiago's limited time to devote to its maintenance. He initially
asked if I'd be interested in maintaining it, then pondered whether
having 3 implementations even makes sense to begin with. I suggested
contacting the maintainers of all 3 implementation to discuss this.

> Frankly I don't think we should be having this/these discussions in
> private. So I'm CC'ing d-devel for lack of a better suited ML.

Indeed.

> > This e-mail is meant to launch discussion over which of the 3
> > implementations would be the best candidate for this.
>
> Santiago, how do you feel about ifupdown's future maintainability and
> feature development? I honestly never looked into why people started
> writing ifupdown replacements. I had my own gripes with it so I never
> questioned it but I'm happy to hear why we should all rally around it.

I've long wondered how we ended up with so many implementations. Team
maintenance of just one implementation would make more sense.

> For me the reason to work on ifupdown-ng is that it has a better core
> design, clean&modern code, an active upstream community, a ***test suite***
> and the potential to fully replace ifupdown without breaking anyone's
> system doing it. Full compatibility is not there yet. I'm working on it,
> see [1] but I'm optimistic so far.
>
> [1]: https://github.com/ifupdown-ng/ifupdown-ng/issues/247

Noted.

> From where I'm sitting ifupdown2 is completely out of the question as *the*
> Debian ifupdown since it doesn't even support *basic* IPv6 use-cases like
> DHCPv6. Upstream community seems nonexistant since this is software by a
> corp for a corp where community building was probably never the
> goal. Admittedly I didn't look very hard, this is just my impression
> currently.

That's also my impression.

> DHCP on the other hand affects us all. I'd be very much on board with
> pooling resources around that.

dhcpcd covers both v4 and v6 transparently and also provides IPv6-PD.
The current plan is to swap ifupdown's default to prefer it to
dhclient and to swap Priority between dhclient and dhcpcd-base.

Martin-Éric

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Thread

Re: ifupdown maintenance Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-07-07 16:20 +0200
  Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-07-07 17:30 +0200
    Re: ifupdown maintenance Santiago Ruano Rincón <santiagorr@riseup.net> - 2024-07-08 17:30 +0200
      Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-07-08 20:20 +0200
      Re: ifupdown maintenance Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-07-09 11:30 +0200
        Re: ifupdown maintenance Santiago Ruano Rincón <santiagorr@riseup.net> - 2024-07-11 14:10 +0200
      Re: ifupdown maintenance Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2024-09-13 11:20 +0200
        Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-09-13 12:00 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Santiago Ruano Rincón <santiagorr@riseup.net> - 2024-09-14 00:20 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-09-14 07:50 +0200
              Replacing isc-dhcp-client with dhcpcd-base (Was: ifupdown  maintenance) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-09-14 14:40 +0200
                Re: Replacing isc-dhcp-client with dhcpcd-base (Was: ifupdown  maintenance) Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2024-09-14 20:20 +0200
                Re: Replacing isc-dhcp-client with dhcpcd-base (Was: ifupdown maintenance) "Henrique de Moraes Holschuh" <hmh@debian.org> - 2024-09-15 17:40 +0200
                Re: Replacing isc-dhcp-client with dhcpcd-base (Was: ifupdown  maintenance) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-09-23 16:00 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2024-09-15 19:00 +0200
  Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-07-09 08:50 +0200
    Re: ifupdown maintenance Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-09 10:10 +0200
      Re: ifupdown maintenance Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-07-09 12:00 +0200
        Re: default network management tools (was: ifupdown maintenance) Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 12:50 +0200
          Re: default network management tools (was: ifupdown maintenance) Bernd Zeimetz <bernd@bzed.de> - 2024-07-10 18:40 +0200
            Re: default network management tools (was: ifupdown maintenance) Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-07-11 08:20 +0200
              Re: default network management tools Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-07-11 12:00 +0200
                Re: default network management tools Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-11 13:50 +0200
                Re: default network management tools Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-07-11 14:20 +0200
            Re: default network management tools Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-11 11:20 +0200
          Re: default network management tools (was: ifupdown maintenance) Santiago Ruano Rincón <santiagorr@riseup.net> - 2024-07-11 14:20 +0200
        Re: ifupdown maintenance Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2024-07-09 13:00 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 13:40 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-07-09 20:30 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2024-07-09 22:20 +0200
              Re: ifupdown maintenance Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-09 22:40 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@rootsland.net> - 2024-07-11 11:40 +0200
        Re: ifupdown maintenance Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 15:50 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 16:10 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 22:00 +0200
              Re: ifupdown maintenance Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-09 22:40 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-07-10 22:20 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2024-07-10 23:20 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-07-11 08:20 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Jose Luis Tallon <jltallon@adv-solutions.net> - 2024-07-11 16:40 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-07-11 08:50 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance "Andrej Shadura" <andrew@shadura.me> - 2024-07-12 13:40 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-11 11:30 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-07-11 14:30 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2024-07-09 16:30 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 19:10 +0200
              what about Netplan? Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2024-07-11 09:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-11 11:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Cyril Brulebois <kibi@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 03:00 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Noah Meyerhans <noahm@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 23:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-11 11:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-11 13:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-13 17:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-13 21:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-07-14 11:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-14 14:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2024-07-14 21:10 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 00:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2024-07-14 18:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-07-14 20:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 00:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Cyril Brulebois <kibi@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 03:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 15:40 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Marvin Renich <mrvn@renich.org> - 2024-07-15 16:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 16:40 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Marvin Renich <mrvn@renich.org> - 2024-07-16 15:40 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 16:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 01:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 02:00 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? thomas@goirand.fr - 2024-07-16 01:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-07-16 08:10 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 11:00 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? thomas@goirand.fr - 2024-07-16 11:10 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 12:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Jose Luis Tallon <jltallon@adv-solutions.net> - 2024-07-16 11:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 12:40 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@rootsland.net> - 2024-07-16 11:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 12:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 13:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@rootsland.net> - 2024-07-16 14:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2024-07-16 13:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 15:10 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2024-07-16 15:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 15:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2024-07-16 18:40 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-07-17 09:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Arne Pisch <old_man999@freenet.de> - 2024-07-20 08:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <luca.boccassi@gmail.com> - 2024-07-16 15:40 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 16:00 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 16:20 +0200
                Size measuring contest (Was: what about Netplan?) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-07-16 15:50 +0200
                Re: Size measuring contest (Was: what about Netplan?) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 16:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Guus Sliepen <guus@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 09:30 +0200
              Re: ifupdown maintenance Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-13 17:40 +0200
        Re: ifupdown maintenance Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-09-16 05:10 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-16 10:30 +0200
    Re: ifupdown maintenance Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-07-09 11:00 +0200
      Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-07-09 13:50 +0200
        Re: ifupdown maintenance Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-07-09 14:20 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-07-11 10:40 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Jose Luis Tallon <jltallon@adv-solutions.net> - 2024-07-11 16:40 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-09-16 05:10 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2024-09-16 10:10 +0200
              Re: ifupdown maintenance Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-09-17 05:20 +0200
  Re: ifupdown maintenance Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-11 11:20 +0200

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