Re: ifupdown maintenance

From	Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.devel
Subject	Re: ifupdown maintenance
Date	2024-07-07 16:20 +0200
Message-ID	<IXAU9-tEG-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<IXAU9-tEG-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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Hi Martin & all,

On Sun, Jul 07, 2024 at 12:38:34PM +0300, Martin-Éric Racine wrote:
> While discussing pending issues with Santiago (ifupdown's de-facto
> maintainer), we came to the conclusion that team maintenance of just
> one ifupdown implementation would be a better way to go than having 3
> different implementations of the same.

Is that discussion public? What's the reasoning of that conclusion?

Frankly I don't think we should be having this/these discussions in
private. So I'm CC'ing d-devel for lack of a better suited ML.

> This e-mail is meant to launch discussion over which of the 3
> implementations would be the best candidate for this.

Santiago, how do you feel about ifupdown's future maintainability and
feature development? I honestly never looked into why people started
writing ifupdown replacements. I had my own gripes with it so I never
questioned it but I'm happy to hear why we should all rally around it.

For me the reason to work on ifupdown-ng is that it has a better core
design, clean&modern code, an active upstream community, a ***test suite***
and the potential to fully replace ifupdown without breaking anyone's
system doing it. Full compatibility is not there yet. I'm working on it,
see [1] but I'm optimistic so far.

[1]: https://github.com/ifupdown-ng/ifupdown-ng/issues/247

From where I'm sitting ifupdown2 is completely out of the question as *the*
Debian ifupdown since it doesn't even support *basic* IPv6 use-cases like
DHCPv6. Upstream community seems nonexistant since this is software by a
corp for a corp where community building was probably never the
goal. Admittedly I didn't look very hard, this is just my impression
currently.

I'm sure it has it's niche thought and that brings my back to my initial
concern: why exactly does it make sense to converge on a single
implementation at this point? Cause I don't see it.

DHCP on the other hand affects us all. I'd be very much on board with
pooling resources around that.

--Daniel

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Re: ifupdown maintenance Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-07-07 16:20 +0200
  Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-07-07 17:30 +0200
    Re: ifupdown maintenance Santiago Ruano Rincón <santiagorr@riseup.net> - 2024-07-08 17:30 +0200
      Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-07-08 20:20 +0200
      Re: ifupdown maintenance Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-07-09 11:30 +0200
        Re: ifupdown maintenance Santiago Ruano Rincón <santiagorr@riseup.net> - 2024-07-11 14:10 +0200
      Re: ifupdown maintenance Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2024-09-13 11:20 +0200
        Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-09-13 12:00 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Santiago Ruano Rincón <santiagorr@riseup.net> - 2024-09-14 00:20 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-09-14 07:50 +0200
              Replacing isc-dhcp-client with dhcpcd-base (Was: ifupdown  maintenance) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-09-14 14:40 +0200
                Re: Replacing isc-dhcp-client with dhcpcd-base (Was: ifupdown  maintenance) Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2024-09-14 20:20 +0200
                Re: Replacing isc-dhcp-client with dhcpcd-base (Was: ifupdown maintenance) "Henrique de Moraes Holschuh" <hmh@debian.org> - 2024-09-15 17:40 +0200
                Re: Replacing isc-dhcp-client with dhcpcd-base (Was: ifupdown  maintenance) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-09-23 16:00 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2024-09-15 19:00 +0200
  Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-07-09 08:50 +0200
    Re: ifupdown maintenance Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-09 10:10 +0200
      Re: ifupdown maintenance Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-07-09 12:00 +0200
        Re: default network management tools (was: ifupdown maintenance) Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 12:50 +0200
          Re: default network management tools (was: ifupdown maintenance) Bernd Zeimetz <bernd@bzed.de> - 2024-07-10 18:40 +0200
            Re: default network management tools (was: ifupdown maintenance) Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-07-11 08:20 +0200
              Re: default network management tools Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-07-11 12:00 +0200
                Re: default network management tools Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-11 13:50 +0200
                Re: default network management tools Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-07-11 14:20 +0200
            Re: default network management tools Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-11 11:20 +0200
          Re: default network management tools (was: ifupdown maintenance) Santiago Ruano Rincón <santiagorr@riseup.net> - 2024-07-11 14:20 +0200
        Re: ifupdown maintenance Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2024-07-09 13:00 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 13:40 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-07-09 20:30 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2024-07-09 22:20 +0200
              Re: ifupdown maintenance Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-09 22:40 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@rootsland.net> - 2024-07-11 11:40 +0200
        Re: ifupdown maintenance Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 15:50 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 16:10 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 22:00 +0200
              Re: ifupdown maintenance Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-09 22:40 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-07-10 22:20 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2024-07-10 23:20 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-07-11 08:20 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Jose Luis Tallon <jltallon@adv-solutions.net> - 2024-07-11 16:40 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2024-07-11 08:50 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance "Andrej Shadura" <andrew@shadura.me> - 2024-07-12 13:40 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-11 11:30 +0200
                Re: ifupdown maintenance Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-07-11 14:30 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2024-07-09 16:30 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-07-09 19:10 +0200
              what about Netplan? Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2024-07-11 09:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-11 11:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Cyril Brulebois <kibi@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 03:00 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Noah Meyerhans <noahm@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 23:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-11 11:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-11 13:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-13 17:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-13 21:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Andrey Rakhmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2024-07-14 11:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-14 14:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2024-07-14 21:10 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 00:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2024-07-14 18:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2024-07-14 20:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 00:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Cyril Brulebois <kibi@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 03:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 15:40 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Marvin Renich <mrvn@renich.org> - 2024-07-15 16:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 16:40 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Marvin Renich <mrvn@renich.org> - 2024-07-16 15:40 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 16:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 01:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 02:00 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? thomas@goirand.fr - 2024-07-16 01:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Marc Haber <mh+debian-devel@zugschlus.de> - 2024-07-16 08:10 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 11:00 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? thomas@goirand.fr - 2024-07-16 11:10 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 12:50 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Jose Luis Tallon <jltallon@adv-solutions.net> - 2024-07-16 11:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 12:40 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@rootsland.net> - 2024-07-16 11:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Colin Watson <cjwatson@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 12:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 13:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Stephan Seitz <stse+debian@rootsland.net> - 2024-07-16 14:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2024-07-16 13:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 15:10 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2024-07-16 15:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 15:30 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2024-07-16 18:40 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Matthias Urlichs <matthias@urlichs.de> - 2024-07-17 09:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Arne Pisch <old_man999@freenet.de> - 2024-07-20 08:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <luca.boccassi@gmail.com> - 2024-07-16 15:40 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 16:00 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Lukas Märdian <slyon@debian.org> - 2024-07-15 16:20 +0200
                Size measuring contest (Was: what about Netplan?) Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-07-16 15:50 +0200
                Re: Size measuring contest (Was: what about Netplan?) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 16:20 +0200
                Re: what about Netplan? Guus Sliepen <guus@debian.org> - 2024-07-16 09:30 +0200
              Re: ifupdown maintenance Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2024-07-13 17:40 +0200
        Re: ifupdown maintenance Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-09-16 05:10 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Chris Hofstaedtler <zeha@debian.org> - 2024-09-16 10:30 +0200
    Re: ifupdown maintenance Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-07-09 11:00 +0200
      Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-07-09 13:50 +0200
        Re: ifupdown maintenance Daniel Gröber <dxld@darkboxed.org> - 2024-07-09 14:20 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Martin-Éric Racine <martin-eric.racine@iki.fi> - 2024-07-11 10:40 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Jose Luis Tallon <jltallon@adv-solutions.net> - 2024-07-11 16:40 +0200
          Re: ifupdown maintenance Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-09-16 05:10 +0200
            Re: ifupdown maintenance Ansgar 🙀 <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2024-09-16 10:10 +0200
              Re: ifupdown maintenance Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-09-17 05:20 +0200
  Re: ifupdown maintenance Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2024-07-11 11:20 +0200

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