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Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!]

From David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!]
Date 2024-02-11 23:50 +0100
Message-ID <I6qO5-9wrt-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <I65JD-9jJn-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <I6c8p-9nHo-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <I6j9T-9rHP-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <I6jjA-9rLR-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <I6jtf-9rP5-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On 2/11/24 06:54, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 03:45:21PM +0100, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 09:37:31AM -0500, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2024 at 08:02:12AM +0100, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>> What Thomas was trying to do is to get a cheap, fast random number
>>>> generator. Shred seems to have such.
>>>
>>> Well... I certainly wouldn't call it a bug.  Maybe a feature request.
>>
>> Still there's the discrepancy between doc and behaviour.
> 
> There isn't.  The documentation says:
> 
> SYNOPSIS
>         shred [OPTION]... FILE...


I interpret the above line to be a prototype for invoking the shred(1) 
program:

* "shred" is the program name

* "[OPTION]..." is one or more option specifiers that may be omitted. 
Each should be described below.

* "FILE..." is one or more argument specifies that should be file system 
paths (strings).


> DESCRIPTION
>         Overwrite  the specified FILE(s) repeatedly, in order to make it harder
>         for even very expensive hardware probing to recover the data.
> 
>         If FILE is -, shred standard output.


I interpret the above line at face value -- if the caller provides a 
dash as the argument, shred(1) will operate on standard output.


> In every sentence, the word FILE appears.  There's nothing in there
> which says "you can operate on a non-file".


Dash is not a file, yet the above sentence says shred(1) can operate on it.


> Once you grasp what the command is *intended* to do (rewind and overwrite
> a file repeatedly), it makes absolutely perfect sense that it should
> only operate on rewindable file system objects.


An expert may infer what you have stated, but I prefer manual pages that 
are explicit.


The GNU project must have found a need for the FILE='-' feature, 
otherwise it would not exist.  The manual page should describe that need 
(e.g. why) and how to properly use shred(1) to solve the need.


> If you want it to write a stream of data instead of performing its normal
> operation (rewinding and rewriting), that's a new feature.


Humans are (in)famous for doing unexpected things.


> If you'd prefer the documentation to say explicitly "only regular files
> and block devices are allowed", that would be an upstream documentation
> *clarification* request.


Apparently, shred(1) has both an info(1) page (?) and a man(1) page. 
The obvious solution is to write one document that is complete and 
correct, and use it everywhere -- e.g. DRY.


David

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Thread

Unidentified subject! gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-07 21:40 +0100
  Re: Unidentified subject! Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-08 05:30 +0100
    Re: Unidentified subject! gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-10 11:00 +0100
      Re: Unidentified subject! "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-10 11:40 +0100
        shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-10 13:50 +0100
          Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] tomas@tuxteam.de - 2024-02-10 14:00 +0100
            Re: shred bug? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-10 15:00 +0100
              Re: shred bug? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-10 15:40 +0100
          Re: shred bug? Gremlin <scott-andrews@columbus.rr.com> - 2024-02-10 14:40 +0100
          Re: shred bug? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-10 14:40 +0100
          Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-11 01:10 +0100
            Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-11 01:20 +0100
              Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-11 01:30 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-02-11 14:00 +0100
                Re: shred bug? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-11 14:30 +0100
              Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-11 08:10 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-11 15:40 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-11 15:50 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-11 16:00 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-11 16:00 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-12 18:00 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2024-02-12 18:00 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-12 22:00 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-12 22:10 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-13 06:50 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-11 16:30 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-13 13:20 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-13 13:40 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-13 13:50 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-13 14:00 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-13 16:40 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-13 17:30 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] debian-user@howorth.org.uk - 2024-02-13 18:50 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-13 22:10 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-02-14 06:50 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-13 19:00 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-02-13 20:00 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-13 20:40 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-13 20:40 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-13 20:50 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-13 21:30 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-13 22:10 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-13 22:50 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2024-02-15 06:40 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-11 23:50 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-02-13 03:40 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-11 16:30 +0100
                Re: shred bug? [was: Unidentified subject!] Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2024-02-16 16:00 +0100
        Re: Unidentified subject! gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-10 18:50 +0100
          Re: Unidentified subject! "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-10 19:40 +0100
            Re: Unidentified subject! gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-10 20:30 +0100
            Re: Unidentified subject! David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-11 00:50 +0100
              Re: Unidentified subject! "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-11 09:10 +0100
                Re: Unidentified subject! David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-11 21:50 +0100
        Re: Unidentified subject! David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-11 00:40 +0100
          Re: Unidentified subject! "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-11 09:20 +0100
            Re: Unidentified subject! David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-11 11:10 +0100
              Fast Random Data Generation (Was: Re: Unidentified subject!) Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2024-02-11 11:30 +0100
                Re: Fast Random Data Generation "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-11 12:30 +0100
                Re: Fast Random Data Generation (Was: Re: Unidentified subject!) Gremlin <scott-andrews@columbus.rr.com> - 2024-02-11 13:20 +0100
                Re: Fast Random Data Generation (Was: Re: Unidentified subject!) David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-12 07:20 +0100
                Re: Fast Random Data Generation (Was: Re: Unidentified subject!) Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2024-02-12 17:40 +0100
                Re: Fast Random Data Generation (Was: Re: Unidentified subject!) David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-12 22:30 +0100
                Re: Fast Random Data Generation (Was: Re: Unidentified subject!) Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2024-02-13 18:40 +0100
                Re: Fast Random Data Generation (Was: Re: Unidentified subject!) Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-02-12 22:30 +0100
              Re: Unidentified subject! "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-11 12:20 +0100
                Re: Unidentified subject! Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-02-11 16:20 +0100
                Re: Unidentified subject! David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-11 23:00 +0100
      Re: Unidentified subject! Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-10 15:40 +0100
  Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was Re:  Unidentified subject!) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-08 16:40 +0100
    Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Gremlin <scott-andrews@columbus.rr.com> - 2024-02-08 17:20 +0100
      Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-08 17:30 +0100
      Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage  (WasRe: Unidentified subject!) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-09 09:50 +0100
    Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Ralph Aichinger <ra@h5.or.at> - 2024-02-08 18:00 +0100
      Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Jeffrey Walton <noloader@gmail.com> - 2024-02-08 20:30 +0100
        Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-08 21:50 +0100
        Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-08 21:50 +0100
          Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Gremlin <scott-andrews@columbus.rr.com> - 2024-02-08 22:00 +0100
            Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-08 22:20 +0100
              Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-08 22:30 +0100
                Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Gremlin <scott-andrews@columbus.rr.com> - 2024-02-08 23:10 +0100
              Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Gremlin <scott-andrews@columbus.rr.com> - 2024-02-08 22:30 +0100
          Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage  (WasRe: Unidentified subject!) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-09 14:00 +0100
            Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2024-02-09 14:50 +0100
            Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage  (WasRe: Unidentified subject!) David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-02-10 07:00 +0100
              Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage(WasRe:  Unidentified subject!) gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-02-10 18:40 +0100
      Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-08 21:40 +0100
        Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Arno Lehmann <al@its-lehmann.de> - 2024-02-09 09:50 +0100
    Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com> - 2024-02-08 18:30 +0100
      Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-08 21:40 +0100
        Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Gremlin <scott-andrews@columbus.rr.com> - 2024-02-08 22:10 +0100
          Re: Things I don't touch with a 3.048m barge pole: USB storage (Was  Re: Unidentified subject!) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2024-02-08 22:20 +0100
  Re: Unidentified subject! Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2024-02-08 23:50 +0100
    Re: Unidentified subject! Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2024-02-09 00:10 +0100
      Re: Unidentified subject! Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2024-02-09 00:50 +0100
        Re: Unidentified subject! Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2024-02-09 05:50 +0100
          Re: Unidentified flying subject! Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2024-02-09 07:50 +0100
            Re: Unidentified flying subject! Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> - 2024-02-09 14:20 +0100

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