Groups > linux.debian.maint.dpkg > #11996

Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg

From	Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.maint.dpkg, linux.debian.devel
Subject	Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg
Date	2023-04-27 08:00 +0200
Message-ID	<Gp2PE-4OG3-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <Gn0ff-3x3G-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <Gnj8d-3IHC-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <Gnkxj-3JHS-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <Gowd3-4u2x-17@gated-at.bofh.it> <GoW7v-4KvJ-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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Hi,

On Thu, Apr 27, 2023 at 12:34:06AM +0200, Helmut Grohne wrote:

> At some point the question becomes: Do we want that complexity inside
> dpkg (aka DEP 17 or some variant of it) or outside of dpkg (i.e. what
> we're talking about here). It seems clear at this time, that complexity
> is unavoidable.

My gut feeling is that returning to "dpkg's model is an accurate
representation of the file system" will be less complex to manage
long-term. For this to work, the model needs to be able to express
reality, so I guess we can't avoid updating dpkg.

I'm also not convinced that the current filesystem layout will remain as
it is, for example I can see a use case for installing kernel modules
outside of /usr. It would be great to have a generic mechanism here, and
be able to do transitions like these without inventing new tools every
time.

Also, the more we can do in a descriptive framework, the better we can
do static checks. The main reason we can argue about what packages are
affected is that we have a database of what files are installed where,
and that still accurately reflects reality, so we can apply a
transformation onto this data and check for conflicts -- but we cannot
see diversions in this database as these are created from imperative
code.

So my fear is that if we create a workaround here that is implemented as
imperative code in pre/postinst, this will be invisible to whoever plans
the next transition, so this would create immense technical debt.

   Simon

Thread

DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-03 14:10 +0200
  Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2023-04-08 04:40 +0200
    Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-22 13:00 +0200
    Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-22 13:00 +0200
      Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2023-06-21 13:40 +0200
        Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-06-21 16:30 +0200
          Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org> - 2023-07-10 11:30 +0200
  Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2023-04-21 14:20 +0200
    Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <luca.boccassi@gmail.com> - 2023-04-21 16:50 +0200
      Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2023-04-22 12:50 +0200
        Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <luca.boccassi@gmail.com> - 2023-04-22 14:30 +0200
        Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2023-04-26 15:20 +0200
          Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-27 00:50 +0200
        Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-27 15:40 +0200
      Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-22 13:00 +0200
        Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <luca.boccassi@gmail.com> - 2023-04-22 14:30 +0200
          Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-25 21:10 +0200
            Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-04-25 22:40 +0200
              Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2023-04-26 15:20 +0200
            Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-04-26 11:20 +0200
              Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-04-26 11:40 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2023-04-26 18:30 +0200
              Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2023-05-02 12:40 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-02 15:00 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2023-05-03 10:40 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-03 12:30 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-03 20:40 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-04 19:20 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2023-05-05 11:40 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-05 14:00 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Andreas Metzler <ametzler@bebt.de> - 2023-05-05 18:40 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-06 00:40 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-06 07:30 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-06 14:30 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-06 17:20 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-06 18:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-06 21:00 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-06 21:50 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-06 21:00 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-06 23:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2023-05-07 01:50 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-07 13:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2023-05-08 20:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-09 03:00 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-09 06:20 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-09 13:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-07 08:00 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-07 09:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-07 11:20 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-07 13:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-08 05:00 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-08 14:00 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-08 14:20 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> - 2023-05-10 17:40 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-10 21:30 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2023-05-10 23:00 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-10 23:20 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2023-05-10 23:40 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-11 00:00 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Emilio Pozuelo Monfort <pochu@debian.org> - 2023-05-11 12:40 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-11 14:30 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-11 20:00 +0200
                Re: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-12 14:20 +0200
                Re: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-12 17:10 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-12 14:30 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-12 15:10 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Matthew Vernon <matthew@debian.org> - 2023-05-25 14:10 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-21 16:30 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-21 17:00 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-06-07 06:40 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-06-13 21:20 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org> - 2023-06-13 22:10 +0200
                Bug#1035904: dpkg currently warning about merged-usr systems (revisited) Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-06-13 22:30 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-26 08:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Matthew Vernon <matthew@debian.org> - 2023-05-26 09:50 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Ansgar <ansgar@43-1.org> - 2023-05-26 10:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-26 10:50 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Matthew Vernon <matthew@debian.org> - 2023-05-26 11:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-07 14:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-07 16:50 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-07 23:20 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-08 03:30 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-08 11:00 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-08 23:40 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-09 03:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2023-05-08 21:10 +0200
                booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve support  for directory aliasing in dpkg) Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-17 11:40 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2023-05-17 11:50 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2023-05-17 12:20 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-17 12:30 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2023-05-17 19:20 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-18 08:40 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-18 11:30 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-05-19 02:40 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-05-19 13:10 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2023-05-17 19:30 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2023-06-08 10:50 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-08 12:10 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2023-06-09 09:50 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2023-06-09 12:00 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-09 12:40 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2023-06-09 13:10 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems Marco d'Itri <md@Linux.IT> - 2023-06-09 13:40 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues <josch@debian.org> - 2023-06-09 17:40 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-06-09 15:30 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Johannes Schauer Marin Rodrigues <josch@debian.org> - 2023-06-09 17:50 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-06-09 18:30 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) HW42 <hw42@ipsumj.de> - 2023-06-09 22:30 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems (was: Re: DEP 17: Improve  support for directory aliasing in dpkg) Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-06-10 07:40 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2023-06-10 08:40 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2023-06-10 09:00 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-06-10 10:50 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems Sven Joachim <svenjoac@gmx.de> - 2023-06-10 19:30 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-10 21:00 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2023-06-11 23:20 +0200
                Re: booststrapping /usr-merged systems Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-06-27 21:50 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg David Kalnischkies <david@kalnischkies.de> - 2023-05-03 15:10 +0200
            Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com> - 2023-04-26 16:50 +0200
            Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-27 00:50 +0200
              Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-04-27 08:00 +0200
              Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-28 10:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-04-28 11:40 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2023-04-28 12:00 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Luca Boccassi <bluca@debian.org> - 2023-04-29 02:50 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2023-05-02 17:40 +0200
              Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-04-28 14:10 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-28 15:50 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Marvin Renich <mrvn@renich.org> - 2023-04-29 20:20 +0200
                Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-29 22:20 +0200
              Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-28 22:20 +0200
      Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-02 15:00 +0200
        Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-02 15:10 +0200
        Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-05-02 16:00 +0200
    Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-22 13:00 +0200
  Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2023-04-21 15:10 +0200
    Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon Richter <sjr@debian.org> - 2023-04-21 19:30 +0200
    Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2023-04-22 13:00 +0200
      Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2023-04-22 15:50 +0200
      Re: DEP 17: Improve support for directory aliasing in dpkg Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2023-04-24 11:40 +0200

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