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| Subject | Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory, sci.logic, comp.ai.philosophy, comp.software-eng |
| References | <tsham9$2lvan$1@dont-email.me> |
| From | Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> |
| Message-ID | <F3XGL.664768$8_id.333838@fx09.iad> (permalink) |
| Organization | Forte - www.forteinc.com |
| Date | 2023-02-14 21:03 -0500 |
Cross-posted to 4 groups.
On 2/14/23 7:57 PM, olcott wrote:
> (a) If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D until H
> correctly determines that its simulated D could not possibly reach its
> own "return" statement in a finite number of simulated steps then:
Eccept that H can never correctly determine this of D, since if the H
that is called by D does ever abort its simulation and returns 0, then D
will halt, thus, since BY DEFINITION, the H we are talking about must be
the same decider, unless you can show that a "Turing Equivalent Program"
can act differently in two call sites, this can't happen.
You have been asked for this evidence, and failed to provide it, thus
you have effectively admitted it is FALSE.
>
> (b) H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
> specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>
> When it is understood that (b) is a necessary consequence of (a) and we
> can see that (a) has been met then we understand that H(D,D) has
> correctly determined the halt state of its input.
but (a) is never true for D
>
> 001 int D(int (*x)())
> 002 {
> 003 int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
> 004 if (Halt_Status)
> 005 HERE: goto HERE;
> 006 return Halt_Status;
> 007 }
> 008
> 009 int main()
> 010 {
> 011 Output("Input_Halts = ", H(D,D));
> 012 Output("Input_Halts = ", D(D));
> 013 }
>
> *Simulating halt deciders applied to the halting theorem*
> The above is fully operational code in the x86utm operating system.
>
> Because H correctly detects that D correctly simulated by H would
> continue to call H(D,D) never reaching its own "return" statement H
> aborts it simulation of D and returns 0 to main() on line 011.
Execpt it doesn't, because H will always abort its simulation too soon,
and an actual correct simulation will reach the return statement,
showing H is incorrect.
>
> Because H correctly detects that D correctly simulated by H would
> continue to call H(D,D) never reaching its own "return" statement H
> aborts it simulation of D and returns 0 to the executed D on line 003.
Except it doesnt.
>
> straw man
> An intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is
> easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
> https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/straw_man
Right, and since the DEFINITION of Halting is about the ACTUAL BEHAVIOR
of the machine, or equivalently the simulation of it by a ACTUAL UTM,
you arguements about simution by the decider (which isn't a UTM) is just
shwon to be a STRAWMAN, and your entire arguement a big fat LIE.
>
> Every recent rebuttal uses the strawman deception to change the subject
> away from: { D correctly simulated by H } or denies that (b) is a
> necessary consequence of (a).
>
>
Nope, all YOUR arguement are strawman because you don't use the ACTUAL
definiton of Halting.
>
> *Simulating Halt Decider Applied to the Halting Theorem*
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/364657019_Simulating_Halt_Decider_Applied_to_the_Halting_Theorem
>
>
Just a load of garbage, as proven.
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Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-14 18:57 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-14 21:03 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-14 21:39 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-14 23:51 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-15 08:57 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-15 18:57 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-15 13:25 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-15 15:12 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-15 16:12 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-15 19:22 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-15 19:20 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-15 16:13 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-15 20:22 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-15 21:36 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-15 20:39 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-15 21:55 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-15 21:15 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-15 22:20 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-15 21:28 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-15 22:42 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-16 10:59 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-16 18:43 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-16 13:16 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2023-02-16 12:26 -0700
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem [ irrefutable ] olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-16 13:41 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem [ irrefutable ] Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2023-02-16 15:24 -0700
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem [ irrefutable ] olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-16 16:45 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem [ irrefutable ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-16 18:48 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-16 18:45 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem [ Ben will not lie about this ] olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-16 17:01 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem [ Ben will not lie about this ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-16 18:49 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-24 15:31 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-24 20:11 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-24 15:31 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-24 20:11 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-24 16:07 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-24 20:11 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-24 16:08 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-24 20:11 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem [-ONLY LIARS WILL DISAGREE-] olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2023-02-26 14:01 -0600
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem [-ONLY LIARS WILL DISAGREE-] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-26 15:15 -0500
Re: Simulating halt deciders defeat the halting theorem [-ONLY LIARS WILL DISAGREE-] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2023-02-26 20:32 +0000
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