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Groups > linux.debian.user > #248145

Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email

From <tomas@tuxteam.de>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email
Date 2022-05-13 07:20 +0200
Message-ID <EmvSx-f89O-3@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <ElYWC-eOix-23@gated-at.bofh.it> <EmdVD-eXh0-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <Emh3b-eZ4l-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <Emq6t-f4B2-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <EmrlT-f5ft-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization linux.* mail to news gateway

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On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 07:23:31PM -0500, Nicholas Geovanis wrote:
> On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 6:06 PM Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> wrote:
> ...trimmed...
> 
> 
> > Two-factor authentication is when you need to confirm your login with an
> > SMS message or one-time pad or other second way of authenticating that
> > you are who you claim to be. 2FA is popular because users choose weak
> > passwords and share them between services. If users generate a unique
> > strong random password for every service, little is gained with 2FA, and
> > 2FA is then just a massive pain in the arse. But user behaviour is
> > unreliable.
> >
> 
> In the last couple years many corporate and not-for-profit organizations
> have implemented
> 2-factor authentication internally. Even in the physical office many
> transactions require 2FA interaction.
> Where I am now that is also the case, and 2FA is configured to prompt with
> a choice between receiving
> the 2nd factor by SMS text message, voice call, or email. They're using
> Pulse 2FA. So your provider
> can do that too if they want to. But the whole point of 2FA is that there
> shall be a second response
> from a previously known location for you: phone number, email address, etc.
> 
> That's the value added in exchange for Ash's "massive pain in the arse".
> Just making the 1st factor be
> a loong password is not equivalent to 2FA in any way. Machine reaching back
> to you is the difference.

The only "value added" is for those third-party providers: they know where
& when you are logging into which service and can monetize on it.

It's just the basic antipattern you can see everywhere in surveillance
capitalism: provide a service which interposes between users and the
things they do (search, communicate, marketplace, transport; in the
current case: identity management), try to make them dependent, monetize
the knowledge you gain about your users.

Not all 2FA is like that, of course. When your second factor is a
hardware dongle (best if you control it, i.e. it's open hardware and
free firmware, Nitrokey comes as near as it gets). Still, why?

A loong password is not "equivalent" to 2FA, that's right. Good
password management (of which length is but a part) is as secure
as 2FA.

Cheers
-- 
t

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google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-11 15:30 +0200
  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE <zp6cge@gmx.net> - 2022-05-11 15:40 +0200
  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2022-05-11 16:40 +0200
  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-11 20:00 +0200
    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-11 20:10 +0200
    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-11 20:10 +0200
      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-11 20:20 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-11 20:50 +0200
      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Virgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee> - 2022-05-12 12:10 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-12 15:30 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-12 15:30 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-05-12 15:40 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Virgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee> - 2022-05-12 20:10 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-12 21:00 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Virgo Pärna <virgo.parna@mail.ee> - 2022-05-13 08:00 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2022-05-13 01:10 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "tv.debian" <tv.debian@googlemail.com> - 2022-05-13 01:40 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-05-13 02:30 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-13 07:20 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-13 11:40 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-13 13:40 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-13 13:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-13 14:10 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-13 17:20 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Michael Stone <mstone@debian.org> - 2022-05-13 14:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-13 19:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2022-05-14 05:10 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-14 07:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-05-16 15:20 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-05-16 15:20 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Ash Joubert <ash@transient.nz> - 2022-05-14 04:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-14 07:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-14 13:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-14 15:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-14 18:40 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-14 20:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-14 21:00 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-14 21:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-15 06:40 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-05-15 14:00 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-15 15:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-05-14 22:20 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-14 11:00 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email tomas@tuxteam.de - 2022-05-14 11:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-14 11:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-14 14:10 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-14 15:10 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-16 05:40 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-16 10:10 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-05-16 12:00 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-05-16 14:40 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Stella Ashburne <rewefie@gmx.com> - 2022-05-16 13:10 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-16 15:40 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-16 18:00 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-14 14:10 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-06-01 19:10 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Patrick Bartek <nemommxiv@gmail.com> - 2022-06-01 19:50 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-06-01 20:40 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email nemo <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 17:20 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-06-02 20:10 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <paulf@quillandmouse.com> - 2022-06-02 20:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-02 20:40 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-06-04 14:00 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-06-04 14:20 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-06-04 16:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-04 16:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-06-04 19:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-06-04 16:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-04 15:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-06-04 16:00 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-04 19:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-06-04 19:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-08 03:40 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-06-08 06:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-06-08 14:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2022-06-08 18:00 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-06-08 18:20 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-06-08 18:30 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-06-08 19:20 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-06-04 16:30 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email rhkramer@gmail.com - 2022-06-03 21:00 +0200
  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-11 20:30 +0200
    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-11 21:00 +0200
      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Siard <shiems@mailbox.org> - 2022-05-11 22:00 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2022-05-12 04:00 +0200
      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-05-11 22:20 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Fero Dali <ferodali@gmail.com> - 2022-05-11 22:30 +0200
  Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-04 21:00 +0200
    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2022-06-04 21:10 +0200
    Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2022-06-04 21:10 +0200
      Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-04 22:10 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2022-06-04 22:40 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-04 22:50 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Edwin Zimmerman <edwin@plainemail.net> - 2022-06-04 23:10 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-04 23:40 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email wec <wec@upwardmail.net> - 2022-06-04 23:10 +0200
          Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-04 23:20 +0200
            Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2022-06-05 02:50 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-05 02:50 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Larry Martell <larry.martell@gmail.com> - 2022-06-05 03:00 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2022-06-05 03:10 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-05 06:10 +0200
                Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email "sp007@caiway.net" <sp007@caiway.net> - 2022-06-05 03:20 +0200
              Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2022-06-05 03:50 +0200
        Re: google account say it will no longer deliver email Alain D D Williams <addw@phcomp.co.uk> - 2022-06-04 23:10 +0200

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