Re: email lacks sender address

From	Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: email lacks sender address
Date	2022-04-27 19:50 +0200
Message-ID	<EgTXz-bAMY-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <EgPhf-bxUk-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <EgQ3E-byrc-19@gated-at.bofh.it> <EgQZH-bz13-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <EgRsK-bzqB-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <EgRM6-bzxu-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 11:29:17AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> If what you WANT is for your outgoing mail to appear to come from
> john@histomat.net then you should have histomat.net in that file instead.

Thanks for the clarifation. I changed it to histomat because I want 
outgoing mail to appear to come from haines@histomat.net. However just 
changing it does not fix my problem. I may have to restart networking. 
If this works I'll let the thread know.

> In this entire thread I have yet to see you simply state what it is
> that you WANT or EXPECT.

Sorry. I simply wanted to fix the problem that some of my outgoing 
mail was rejected because of a protocol error. I wanted mail to get 
to its intended recipient; I expected that to happen.  The problem 
seems to be that Sender: field is empty. 

> YOU ARE NOT USING DEBIAN SO WE DON'T KNOW!

I insist that the Devan operating system I use is identical to Debian 
except for its lack of systemd. Its installation is identical to 
that of Debian and all packages come from the Debian repository.

> As a *guess*, it probably used your hostname, which you gave it, as
> the value of /etc/mailname.  There is no way it could know what you
> want without asking, and there has been a recent trend among OS
> installers to ask fewer questions, and to assume more things.

In network setup during OS installation, if I recall 
correctly, I'm asked for a) my host name and seprately for b) my 
domain namer. It is entirely possible that when it asked for my domaiin name 
that I entered lenin.histomat.net. But this seems unlikelyi because 
my e-mail system has been working property until just a week ago. 

> Of course, since we HAVE NO IDEA HOW YOUR OS'S INSTALLER WORKS, all
> we can do is guess.

If the installer were any different from that of Debian I would have
addressed the difference. Devuan is imply Devian without systemd. The 
installers presumably work the same. 

> > During network setup I entered the 
> > hostname lenin and domain name histomat.net. Or at least that was
> > my intention. 
> 
> It probably decided to use that as your /etc/mailname.

No. The system worked until a week ago.

> Now, let's look at this domain name for a moment.
> 
> unicorn:~$ host histomat.net
> histomat.net has address 216.239.138.216
> histomat.net mail is handled by 10 postoffice.omnis.com.
> 
> unicorn:~$ host postoffice.omnis.com.
> postoffice.omnis.com has address 216.239.133.242
> postoffice.omnis.com has IPv6 address 2607:fe90:1:1::1c
> 
> The similarity in the two IPv4 addresses catches my attention.  It looks
> like this histomat.net domain name is "owned by" (or at least handled by)
> the same people who own/handle postoffice.omnis.com.
> 
> I'm guessing that person isn't you.  You don't seem to know enough to be
> running an Internet domain.

That is correct. I am not an IT person. My public IP address is indeed 
216.239.138.216. I assume it is assigned by my ISP. My ISP is Onnis. 
My mail service is also provided by Omnis. Would that explain the 
similarity of the IP addresses?

> So, that begs the question of why you think it's appropriate to announce
> yourself as histomat.net in your outgoing communications.

By "announce" do you refer to my domain name? Are you asking why I use 
histomat.net as my domain name? That is because it is my domain name. 
I had my ISP create a simple alias for the domain name 
historicalmateiralism.info. It has the same IP address as hstomat.net.

> Furthermore, we've seen evidence that you're using an outgoing mail relay
> (not under your own control) which rejects your outgoing email if you
> try to identify yourself as root@lenin.histomat.net.  Would it also have
> rejected root@histomat.net?  Who knows.  Certainly not us, because you
> haven't performed that test and told us the result.

I presume that by "outgoing mail relay" you refer to the mail service 
provided by my ISP. I understand that it will reject 
root@lenin.histomat.net because my hostname is not part of my domain 
name. 

I have no idea off hand how to test if mail sent from 
root@histomat.net will get through. All I can think of is telnet. I 
don't know whether mail has an option to define the sender. Perhaps I 
could log in as root and send mail

> This makes me wonder what envelope sender address(es) it WILL accept.
> Knowing that would be incredibly useful.  It may be the single most
> important piece of data you could possibly possess in this entire
> scenario, as it will probably dictate everything there is to be dictated
> about how you should configure your outgoing email.

I know from past success that it will accept mail from haines@histomat 
(and from brownh@historicalmaterialism.info)

> Do you have any actual *instructions* or *documentation* that was
> given to you by the histomat.net / postoffice.omnis.com administrators?
> Something that could guide you toward setting up your outgoing email in
> a way they will tolerate?  Or is it going to be 100% guesswork?

I cooked up histomat.net and didn't give myself a set of directions 
;-). Neither did Omnis. 

>  (Also, what is mail.guardedhost.com?  I still never saw an answer to that.)

Sorry. I thought I made it clear that this (with port appended) is the 
address required by my ISP's mail server.

Thread

email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-24 22:10 +0200
  Re: email lacks sender address Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2022-04-24 23:40 +0200
  Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 00:40 +0200
    Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 05:40 +0200
      Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 06:40 +0200
        Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 17:50 +0200
          Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 18:50 +0200
          Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 19:00 +0200
            Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 21:10 +0200
          Re: email lacks sender address Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2022-04-26 11:20 +0200
            Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-26 15:30 +0200
              Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-26 17:10 +0200
              Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-26 22:30 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-27 11:30 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 11:50 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 14:10 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 14:30 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 16:40 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2022-04-27 18:20 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 23:00 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 14:50 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 15:40 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 16:30 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 16:50 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 17:00 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-27 15:40 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 16:40 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 17:10 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 18:10 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 19:50 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 20:40 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 23:50 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 21:10 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 23:00 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 22:50 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-04-28 07:00 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 16:20 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 20:30 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 21:40 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 23:30 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-27 22:00 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-27 22:30 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2022-04-28 17:00 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-28 19:10 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-28 19:20 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-29 01:50 +0200
          Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-27 17:20 +0200
            Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200
      Re: email lacks sender address Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-25 14:10 +0200
        Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 16:20 +0200
          Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-25 16:30 +0200
            Re: email lacks sender address David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-04-25 17:10 +0200
          Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 16:40 +0200
      Re: email lacks sender address Vincent Lefevre <vincent@vinc17.net> - 2022-04-26 17:20 +0200
        Re: email lacks sender address Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2022-04-26 17:40 +0200
  Re: email lacks sender address 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-25 03:20 +0200
    Re: email lacks sender address Jim Popovitch <jim@k4vqc.com> - 2022-04-25 03:50 +0200
      Re: email lacks sender address 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-25 06:50 +0200
    Re: email lacks sender address Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-04-25 05:40 +0200
      Re: email lacks sender address 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-25 07:00 +0200
      Re: email lacks sender address Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-04-25 14:50 +0200
        Re: email lacks sender address 황병희 <soyeomul@doraji.xyz> - 2022-04-26 02:50 +0200
          Re: email lacks sender address Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-04-26 18:10 +0200
            Re: email lacks sender address Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz>  - 2022-04-27 03:10 +0200
              Re: email lacks sender address Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz>  - 2022-04-27 03:20 +0200
              Re: email lacks sender address Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2022-04-27 17:30 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address Byung-Hee HWANG <soyeomul@doraji.xyz>  - 2022-04-27 20:40 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) Haines Brown <haines@histomat.net> - 2022-05-08 18:10 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-05-08 19:10 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-09 02:50 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-05-09 03:30 +0200
                Re: email lacks sender address (SOLVED) David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2022-05-09 04:40 +0200

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