Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]

From	<tomas@tuxteam.de>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]
Date	2021-08-08 23:10 +0200
Message-ID	<CJYdr-6Gj-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <CJCFY-1XL-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <CJK0N-6tu-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <CJL6x-7kV-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <CJNrH-cM-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <CJSUp-3vn-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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On Sun, Aug 08, 2021 at 03:26:25PM +0000, Andy Smith wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Sun, Aug 08, 2021 at 11:35:15AM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > any ideas on how to make the situation better?
> 
> To be honest I don't think that mailing lists are a very good venue
> for user support and I would these days prefer to direct people to a
> Stack Overflow-like site [...]

I stringly disagree on that one. There's tooling and there's
politeness, and they are, IMO, uncorrelated variables.

Some people are rather wired towards "forum style", others more
towards "mail style" -- and I think that's why this kind of
discussion tends to come up time and again.

Personally, I tend strongly towards "mail style": I have my MUA
and have taught it to work "my way". I'm infinitely more effective
(and happy) with that. I cringe at nearly every Webby interface.

But I am aware that there are people who work the opposite way.
I don't have a solution to that.

There is that big temptation to imagine something which works
"both ways" (there are fora, like Discourse, which offer a mail
interface, I'm taking part in one of those), but my experience
is that, since in a webby forum the presentation itself is
controlled, it ends up being part of the "language". This part
gets "lost" in translation to mail. For those users, it feels
"unnatural".

> The main reason why I see mailing lists as inappropriate for user
> support is that there is a severe signal to noise ratio problem.

I think you'll get the same on unmoderated fora. A moderated
mailing list has a higher S/N ratio, but Debian User isn't, for
a very good reason.

I feel we aren't doing that bad, considering the volume.

> In debian-user there's a relatively small group of people who value
> getting their opinions on a vast variety of topics across more than
> they value actually answering on-topic questions [...]

These are strong judgement calls, and I think our community is so
highly diverse that the thresholds will vary enormously.

It is thus, IMO, important to be extra careful. Things which to
one may be a funny joke can be to others hurtful.

> We can try to self-moderate by asking ourselves, "does my reply help
> the poster? Does it belong on debian-user?" Unfortunately for some
> the mind set is, "I'm a user of Debian so any opinion I wish to post
> is on-topic on debian-user". I appreciate I have also failed at this
> from time to time and I include myself in the list of those who
> should do better. Ways of making us do better are needed.

Everyone "fails" some times and according to some criteria. I believe
things work out generally if we keep trying.

But then, I'm said to be an optimist :-)

Cheers
 - t

Thread

How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian rao mohsin <kraomohsin2@gmail.com> - 2021-08-06 18:10 +0200
  Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-06 18:40 +0200
    Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-08-06 21:00 +0200
      Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-08-06 22:50 +0200
        Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-06 23:10 +0200
          Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 00:50 +0200
            Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-07 01:00 +0200
              Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 01:20 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-07 13:00 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-07 15:40 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 16:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-07 16:30 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 17:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-07 18:00 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-07 23:30 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-08 00:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive  Debian Brian Thompson <brian@hashvault.io> - 2021-08-08 00:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-08 08:00 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive  Debian Brian Thompson <brian@hashvault.io> - 2021-08-08 09:10 +0200
                On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-08 11:40 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-08 17:30 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Brian Thompson <brian@hashvault.io> - 2021-08-08 18:00 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-08-08 21:00 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-08 22:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-08 23:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-08 23:40 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-09 02:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 00:00 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-10 01:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 03:00 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-10 03:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 03:40 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-11 03:20 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-11 13:50 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] SDA <marathon.durandal@gmail.com> - 2021-08-16 14:30 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-08-16 16:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] SDA <marathon.durandal@gmail.com> - 2021-08-17 17:00 +0200
                Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-17 21:00 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-17 21:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-17 21:40 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) Terence <terence.john@gmail.com> - 2021-08-17 21:50 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-18 00:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-18 00:50 +0200
                [WAY OFF-TOPIC] Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with  debian-user participants (or most of them) John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2021-08-18 01:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot  Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 01:10 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-18 01:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux  ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 07:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot  Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-08-18 13:10 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot  Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-08-18 13:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-18 14:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot  Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-19 22:20 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2021-08-18 14:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot  Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 19:00 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux  ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 07:40 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2021-08-19 08:20 +0200
                Flamebait [was: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user  participants ...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-19 09:50 +0200
                Re: Flamebait [was: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with  debian-user participants ...] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 10:40 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux  ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 10:30 +0200
                Re: Flamebait [was: Wishing for an off-topic mail list ...] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 10:40 +0200
                Flamebait [was: Wishing for an off-topic mail list ...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-19 10:40 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot  Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-08-19 08:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-19 10:00 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-19 10:10 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 10:40 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-08-19 10:20 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user  participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was:  How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Jim Popovitch <jim@k4vqc.com> - 2021-08-19 15:10 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux  ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 17:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-09 07:30 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 00:20 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 01:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-10 01:30 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 03:40 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-08-09 09:40 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-09 11:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-08-09 17:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-09 17:50 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images          Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2021-08-10 03:00 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 04:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-07 17:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 17:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-07 17:30 +0200
              Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Keith Bainbridge <ke1thrboz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-07 02:50 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-08-09 15:30 +0200
        Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 00:50 +0200
      Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-08-06 23:00 +0200
      Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 00:50 +0200
        Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 01:00 +0200
      [OFFTPIC] How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2021-08-07 08:30 +0200
        Re: [OFFTPIC] How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard  Drive Debian Keith Bainbridge <ke1thrboz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-07 09:50 +0200
          Changing subjects, forums and things. Drive Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-07 09:50 +0200
            Re: Changing subjects, forums and things. Drive Debian Keith Bainbridge <ke1thrboz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-07 13:40 +0200
              Re: Howto change of subjects [ was : Changing subjects, forums and  things. Drive Debian] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 15:20 +0200
                Re: Howto change of subjects [ was : Changing subjects, forums and  things. Drive Debian] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-08-07 21:50 +0200
    Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Keith Bainbridge <ke1thrboz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-07 02:50 +0200
  Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive  Debian 007 <007@caiway.net> - 2021-08-06 20:20 +0200

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