Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]

From	Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]
Date	2021-08-08 21:00 +0200
Message-ID	<CJWbD-5io-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <CJCFY-1XL-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <CJK0N-6tu-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <CJL6x-7kV-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <CJNrH-cM-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <CJSUp-3vn-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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Andy Smith wrote: 
> Hello,
> 
> On Sun, Aug 08, 2021 at 11:35:15AM +0200, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > any ideas on how to make the situation better?
> 
> To be honest I don't think that mailing lists are a very good venue
> for user support and I would these days prefer to direct people to a
> Stack Overflow-like site. The chief advantages of such sites are
> that posted problems are narrowed down to contain the required
> information, and answers are ranked so as to make poor answers (and
> ultimately, disruptive posters) disappear. Ask Ubuntu. I think,
> works well.
> 
> There have been a few attempts to set up such sites for Debian, so
> that people could be directed to a site running on DFSG-free
> software instead of proprietary platforms like Stack Overflow. Sadly
> each of these efforts have foundered through lack of use.

If you particularly want to do this, CoDidact is a non-profit
developing and running a GNU Affero-licensed codebase for this
sort of thing. I know one of the founders, if you'd like an
introduction. https://codidact.org/

> I don't see the lack of use as an indictment of their effectiveness;
> rather I think it's just because it's too hard to change the status
> quo without significant work.

My opinion is that forum and Q/A-style systems are fundamentally
inferior to mailing lists for experts and advanced users, while
being friendlier to beginners.

> advertising on Debian's web site. The announcement threads on the
> mailing lists then got dominated by arguments from the same small
> group of people loudly and repeatedly arguing how they would never
> use or support such a thing. That's fine, but without a way to

The loud ones are partially the rude ones, but also all the
people who have been through this cycle several times and have
decided that there is nothing wrong with having mailing lists
for people who can deal with mailing lists.

> this for nuggets of on-topic wisdom and even when a post is
> on-topic, a newcomer often doesn't have the base knowledge to
> distinguish good answers from bad. I find it hard to justify
> subjecting someone to that.

This doesn't go away on forum or Q/A sites. Often the top-voted
answer is wrong or suboptimal or was correct ten years ago when
it was first asked but is incorrect now.

> If we have to continue using a mailing list for user support then my
> best suggestion would be to severely tighten up the on-topic
> requirements so that every post must be about use of Debian, and
> giving time-outs to posters who repeatedly can't stick to this.

This is reasonable. It is, however, a change in moderation that
will require a lot more work from volunteers.

-dsr-

Thread

How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian rao mohsin <kraomohsin2@gmail.com> - 2021-08-06 18:10 +0200
  Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-06 18:40 +0200
    Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian didier gaumet <didier.gaumet@gmail.com> - 2021-08-06 21:00 +0200
      Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-08-06 22:50 +0200
        Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-06 23:10 +0200
          Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 00:50 +0200
            Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-07 01:00 +0200
              Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 01:20 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-07 13:00 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2021-08-07 15:40 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 16:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-07 16:30 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 17:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-07 18:00 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-07 23:30 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-08 00:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive  Debian Brian Thompson <brian@hashvault.io> - 2021-08-08 00:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-08 08:00 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive  Debian Brian Thompson <brian@hashvault.io> - 2021-08-08 09:10 +0200
                On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-08 11:40 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-08 17:30 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Brian Thompson <brian@hashvault.io> - 2021-08-08 18:00 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-08-08 21:00 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-08 22:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-08 23:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-08 23:40 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-09 02:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 00:00 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-10 01:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 03:00 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-10 03:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 03:40 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-11 03:20 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-11 13:50 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] SDA <marathon.durandal@gmail.com> - 2021-08-16 14:30 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-08-16 16:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] SDA <marathon.durandal@gmail.com> - 2021-08-17 17:00 +0200
                Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-17 21:00 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-17 21:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-17 21:40 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) Terence <terence.john@gmail.com> - 2021-08-17 21:50 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-18 00:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-18 00:50 +0200
                [WAY OFF-TOPIC] Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with  debian-user participants (or most of them) John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2021-08-18 01:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot  Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 01:10 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-18 01:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux  ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 07:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot  Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-08-18 13:10 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot  Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-08-18 13:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-18 14:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot  Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-19 22:20 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2021-08-18 14:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot  Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-18 19:00 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux  ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 07:40 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2021-08-19 08:20 +0200
                Flamebait [was: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user  participants ...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-19 09:50 +0200
                Re: Flamebait [was: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with  debian-user participants ...] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 10:40 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux  ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 10:30 +0200
                Re: Flamebait [was: Wishing for an off-topic mail list ...] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 10:40 +0200
                Flamebait [was: Wishing for an off-topic mail list ...] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-19 10:40 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot  Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-08-19 08:30 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-19 10:00 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-19 10:10 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 10:40 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-08-19 10:20 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user  participants (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was:  How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Jim Popovitch <jim@k4vqc.com> - 2021-08-19 15:10 +0200
                Re: Wishing for an off-topic mail list with debian-user participants  (or most of them) (was: Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux  ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian]) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-19 17:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-09 07:30 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 00:20 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 01:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-08-10 01:30 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 03:40 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-08-09 09:40 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-09 11:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2021-08-09 17:10 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-09 17:50 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images          Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2021-08-10 03:00 +0200
                Re: On improving mailing list [was: How to Boot Linux ISO Images  Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian] Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2021-08-10 04:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-07 17:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 17:10 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2021-08-07 17:30 +0200
              Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Keith Bainbridge <ke1thrboz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-07 02:50 +0200
                Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-08-09 15:30 +0200
        Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 00:50 +0200
      Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-08-06 23:00 +0200
      Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 00:50 +0200
        Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 01:00 +0200
      [OFFTPIC] How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2021-08-07 08:30 +0200
        Re: [OFFTPIC] How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard  Drive Debian Keith Bainbridge <ke1thrboz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-07 09:50 +0200
          Changing subjects, forums and things. Drive Debian <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-08-07 09:50 +0200
            Re: Changing subjects, forums and things. Drive Debian Keith Bainbridge <ke1thrboz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-07 13:40 +0200
              Re: Howto change of subjects [ was : Changing subjects, forums and  things. Drive Debian] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-07 15:20 +0200
                Re: Howto change of subjects [ was : Changing subjects, forums and  things. Drive Debian] Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-08-07 21:50 +0200
    Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive Debian Keith Bainbridge <ke1thrboz@gmx.com> - 2021-08-07 02:50 +0200
  Re: How to Boot Linux ISO Images Directly From Your Hard Drive  Debian 007 <007@caiway.net> - 2021-08-06 20:20 +0200

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