Re: MDs & Dentists

From	Celejar <celejar@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: MDs & Dentists
Date	2021-07-21 20:40 +0200
Message-ID	<CDpip-ul-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <CB3m1-1My-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <CD00F-1XX-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <CDfCp-3bn-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <CDlRw-6JH-13@gated-at.bofh.it> <CDmud-7bz-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 18:38:30 +0300
Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 10:51:40AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 11:16:46 +0300
> > Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > 	Hi.
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2021 at 11:32:26AM -0400, Celejar wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 09:46:59 +0300
> > > > Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> wrote:

...

> > > > https://hacked.com/linux-ransomware-notorious-cases-and-ways-to-protect/
> > > 
> > > Requires Java to be installed. A rare case on a Linux *desktop*.
> > 
> > Rare? I don't have statistics, but on one of my Linux desktops, I do
> > some development work for Android, using IntelliJ IDEA / Android Studio,
> > which depend on at least some Java components.
> 
> Numbers show that I was incorrect. Let's call it "unlikely" instead of
> "rare". Let the popcon graphs speak for themselves:
> 
> https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=firefox-esr
> vs
> https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=openjdk-11

I'm not sure I'm reading the numbers correctly, but the openjdk-11-jre
figures are 26-29% (as opposed to firefox-esr's 42%) - hardly "unlikely."

> I agree with you that one should uninstall Java unless it's needed.
> After all, they at Oracle always find something to fix in Java security
> every three months, and this goes on for last ten years.
> 
> > I don't know if I have
> > enough Java installed to be susceptible to the malware in question ;)
> 
> Famous Java's slogan "you write it once and run it everywhere" is an
> exaggeration, to put it lightly. Chances are, you don't have that exact
> minor update of Oracle JRE that this malware actually needs.

Well, I suppose that's a relief ;)

> > Fair enough - but I see no reason why in principle desktop Linux will
> > remain immune from ransomware.
> 
> It won't by itself, of course. One sure way to beat ransomware is to
> take immutable backups (i.e. unmodifiable by host during and after the
> backup is taken), and as recent history shows us - ransomware victims
> apparently do not use this approach.
> 
> Another sure way is to forbid running executables downloaded from random
> Internet sites, but no thanks to appimage, flatpak, snap, and Go Linux
> desktop goes straight into Windows desktop direction.
> And again, as recent history shows us - ransomware victims apparently do
> not use this approach too.

Good points.

> Currently a Linux desktop is better in this regard, but I agree that it
> may not remain the same.
> 
> 
> > Even if Linux word processors are safer than their Windows counterparts,
> 
> Last time I ran Libreoffice I had that distinct feeling I'm running a
> Java program. You know - long startup, eating memory like no tomorrow,
> trying to write useless junk at least to four different places at my
> filesystems, and eating the unhealthy amounts of CPU time in the
> process.

Funny - I always have that feeling and most of those experiences with
Firefox, (even) these days ;)

> I know that Libreoffice is written in C++, but the code quality of it is
> definitely left to be desired. At least then the thing crashes (it did,
> several times) it produces a standard core dump, not some unreadable
> stack trace and a heapdump.
> 
> In retrospect, maybe feeding Libreoffice Draw that 800-pages PDF was not
> the best of ideas, but no free software tool comes close to the
> capabilities of Libreoffice in editing PDFs, and I really needed that
> PDF to be modified (mass-replacing embedded fonts, to be specific).
> 
> 
> On the other hand, Windows counterparts are typical enterprisey software
> written by generations of overseas workers with the code quality (or
> rather the lack of) that's expected from enterprisey software.
> 
> My opinion on this - both are bad. Lireoffice is better being free
> software, of course, but that does not make it secure by definition.
> 
> 
> > browsers are just full of vulnerabilities,
> 
> True. Every version of Chromium and Firefox fixes at least one.
> Most of said vulnerabilities do cannot be used to get Remote Code
> Execution (RCE) though. Which leaves us with "random download" scenario,
> which I've discussed above.

Most, yes. But the pwn2own hackers, for example, seem to pretty
routinely get RCE on the major browsers, so I wouldn't bet my data that
ransomware authors won't as well:

https://www.zerodayinitiative.com/blog/2019/3/21/pwn2own-vancouver-2019-day-two-results
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/researchers-earn-1-2-million-for-exploits-demoed-at-pwn2own-2021/

> > so why couldn't ransomware get in that way?

> It could. In a lack of a proper execution environment (be it JRE,
> flatpak, snap or whatever) - what should it do next? Wait for a user to
> execute it?

> Reco

Celejar

Thread

Re: MDs & Dentists Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@surfnaked.ca> - 2021-07-14 17:40 +0200
  Re: MDs & Dentists Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> - 2021-07-14 20:30 +0200
    Re: MDs & Dentists John Hasler <john@sugarbit.com> - 2021-07-14 21:30 +0200
      Re: MDs & Dentists Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-15 00:30 +0200
    Re: MDs & Dentists ellanios82 <ellanios82@gmail.com> - 2021-07-14 21:50 +0200
      Re: MDs & Dentists Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-07-14 22:00 +0200
        Re: MDs & Dentists Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-15 00:40 +0200
          Re: MDs & Dentists Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-07-15 01:00 +0200
            Re: MDs & Dentists Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-15 01:40 +0200
            Re: MDs & Dentists Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-07-15 02:40 +0200
              Re: MDs & Dentists Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-07-15 03:20 +0200
              Re: MDs & Dentists Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-15 04:00 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-07-15 04:00 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-15 04:10 +0200
      Re: MDs & Dentists Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-15 00:30 +0200
        Re: MDs & Dentists jeremy ardley <jeremy@ardley.org> - 2021-07-15 01:10 +0200
          Re: MDs & Dentists jeremy ardley <jeremy@ardley.org> - 2021-07-15 02:30 +0200
            Re: MDs & Dentists Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-15 04:00 +0200
          Re: MDs & Dentists Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-07-15 03:50 +0200
            Re: MDs & Dentists Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-07-15 04:00 +0200
          Re: MDs & Dentists ellanios82 <ellanios82@gmail.com> - 2021-07-15 09:50 +0200
            Re: MDs & Dentists Jeremy Ardley <jeremy@ardley.org> - 2021-07-15 10:10 +0200
            Re: MDs & Dentists Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2021-07-15 10:10 +0200
          Re: MDs & Dentists Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-07-15 11:40 +0200
            Re: MDs & Dentists <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-07-15 12:30 +0200
        Re: MDs & Dentists Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-07-15 08:50 +0200
          Re: MDs & Dentists Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 17:40 +0200
            Re: MDs & Dentists Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-07-21 10:20 +0200
              Re: MDs & Dentists Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-07-21 17:00 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-07-21 17:40 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-07-21 18:00 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-08-01 15:40 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-01 16:00 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-08-01 16:00 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-08-01 18:30 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-08-01 19:10 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-01 22:30 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-01 22:50 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-08-02 15:00 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-08-02 15:00 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-08-01 18:00 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-08-01 15:50 +0200
                Hard to understand, being clear [ was Re: MDs & Dentists] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-08-01 22:40 +0200
                Re: Hard to understand, being clear [ was Re: MDs & Dentists] Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-08-02 15:40 +0200
                Re: Hard to understand, being clear [ was Re: MDs & Dentists] Gunnar Gervin <dofeelok@gmail.com> - 2021-08-02 16:00 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-07-21 18:20 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@touchtonecorp.com> - 2021-07-21 18:40 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-07-21 19:10 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-07-21 19:40 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-07-21 20:20 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-07-21 21:50 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2021-07-21 23:50 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-21 19:20 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-07-21 19:40 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-07-21 19:30 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-07-21 22:40 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-07-21 20:40 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Reco <recoverym4n@enotuniq.net> - 2021-07-21 21:10 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-07-21 22:30 +0200
                Re: MDs & Dentists Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2021-07-21 21:20 +0200
        Re: MDs & Dentists Michael Lange <klappnase@freenet.de> - 2021-07-15 13:10 +0200
          Re: MDs & Dentists Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-15 15:40 +0200
    Re: MDs & Dentists Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2021-07-15 00:30 +0200

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