Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > linux.debian.vote > #2028

Re: Willingness to share a position statement?

Show all headers | View raw

On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 09:18:10PM +0100, Gerardo Ballabio wrote:
>Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> Do we really have to go through this argument *again*?
>
>I didn't start this discussion.

But you've spoken up in a previous discussion and we spoke then.

>> Freedom of speech does *not* mean freedom from consequences.
>
>The point is who decides what the consequences are.
>That should be up to the legal system, not to some random group of
>people who gather together and decide to enact summary punishment.
>
>Some types of speech are forbidden by law: hate speech, defamatory
>speech, incitement to violate the law (note that debating whether a
>law is unjust does NOT equate to inciting people to violate that law).
>Everything that isn't forbidden is free speech and nobody must be
>discriminated for voicing their opinions.

You were wrong the last time you said this kind of thing, and you're
still wrong. We *entirely* have the freedom to discriminate based on
what people say and do around us. We're not a government. We are *not*
in the situation where we *have* to support people saying things that we
believe to be bad, wrong and hurtful. It is *entirely* within our
rights to evaluate people by their words and actions and to decide
whether we wish to talk or work with them in future.

Try a simple thought experiment: if you think that only the law (which
country?) has any bearing here, is spam filtering allowed? Should we
be allowed to block people from our mailing lists or BTS for sending
lots of messages saying "Free Software is awful"?

...

>> Decrying this as a "political correctness storm" is a favourite
>> argument of the morally bankrupt who want the freedom to spout hate
>> without being called on it.
>
>Spouting hate can come from both camps, and the language of this
>sentence of yours does seem an example of that, as well as a possible
>CoC violation, particularly if you meant to imply that I belong to the
>"morally bankrupt".

I have no idea about your personal morals. However, claiming that
there is a right to free speech without consequences *is* a common
tactic of people who wish to say hateful things. Do you dispute that?

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.                                steve@einval.com
Google-bait:       https://www.debian.org/CD/free-linux-cd
  Debian does NOT ship free CDs. Please do NOT contact the mailing
  lists asking us to send them to you.

Back to linux.debian.vote | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2021-03-24 12:50 +0100
  Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2021-03-24 13:40 +0100
    Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2021-03-24 17:50 +0100
    Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2021-03-24 20:30 +0100
    Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2021-03-25 21:40 +0100
      Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2021-03-25 22:40 +0100
        Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2021-03-25 23:30 +0100
          Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 23:30 +0100
            Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 23:40 +0100
              Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 00:00 +0100
                Why does Debian Care about the FSF Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 00:20 +0100
                Re: Why does Debian Care about the FSF Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 09:30 +0100
                Re: Why does Debian Care about the FSF Simon Avery <digdilem@gmail.com> - 2021-03-26 23:10 +0100
              Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 00:40 +0100
                Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Felix Lechner <felix.lechner@lease-up.com> - 2021-03-26 01:30 +0100
            Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2021-03-25 23:50 +0100
        Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2021-03-25 23:40 +0100
          Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2021-03-27 11:20 +0100
        Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Gerardo Ballabio <gerardo.ballabio@gmail.com> - 2021-03-26 10:30 +0100
          Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Ulrike Uhlig <ulrike@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 11:30 +0100
          Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 17:00 +0100
      Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Ulrike Uhlig <ulrike@debian.org> - 2021-03-26 00:40 +0100
    Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Philip Rinn <rinni@inventati.org> - 2021-03-26 00:20 +0100
    Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Dmitry Smirnov <onlyjob@debian.org> - 2021-03-31 00:40 +0200
      Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2021-03-31 01:00 +0200
      Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2021-04-01 01:20 +0200
      Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2021-04-01 11:00 +0200
        Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Dmitry Smirnov <onlyjob@debian.org> - 2021-04-02 03:10 +0200
          Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Tiago Bortoletto Vaz <tiago@debian.org> - 2021-04-02 03:50 +0200
            Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2021-04-02 21:00 +0200
          Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2021-04-02 14:10 +0200
            Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Dmitry Smirnov <onlyjob@debian.org> - 2021-04-03 03:30 +0200
              Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Zlatan Todoric <zlatan@riseup.net> - 2021-04-03 10:30 +0200
              Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> - 2021-04-03 14:10 +0200
                Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Milan Zamazal <pdm@debian.org> - 2021-04-03 15:50 +0200
                Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2021-04-03 17:40 +0200
  Re: Willingness to share a position statement? Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2021-03-24 13:40 +0100

csiph-web