Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?

From	Celejar <celejar@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations?
Date	2021-03-07 20:10 +0100
Message-ID	<BQ6WR-Ye-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<BPTPX-1tS-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <BPTPX-1tS-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <BPXgS-3s5-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Sun, 7 Mar 2021 00:48:04 -0800
David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> wrote:

> On 3/6/21 9:02 PM, Dan Hitt wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 8:59 PM Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> I think that i will need to get new desktop hardware, so i'm trying to
> >> figure out what to do.

...

> >> I'm sort of thinking about getting a Dell Inspiron but maybe i should buy
> >> from a linux vendor instead, such as 76?  Presumably at least in that case
> >> at least i wouldn't have to worry about the bios.
> 
> I tend to buy/ build used Dell and Intel stuff, because it is readily 
> available and affordable.

...

> I have seen desktops go from 5.25" HDD's to 3.5" HDD's to 2.5" SSD's to 
> M.2 SSD/NVMe's.  The available drive bays and interfaces has changed 
> accordingly.  You might want to look at workstations, servers, NAS, or 
> homebrew chassis if you really need three 3.5" HDD's (internal and/or 
> rack mount).

...

> >> In a way, i'd like to have something with 2 ethernet ports on the
> >> motherboard, although i've found that usb-to-ethernet is adequate for my
> >> purposes.
> 
> Dual Ethernet is uncommon on desktop boards/ chassis.  You can find them 
> on workstations, servers, NAS chassis, and router chassis.
> 
> 
> HDD's, and espcially SSD's, can now saturate Gigabit.  I am starting to 
> consider upgrading my SOHO LAN to 10 Gb copper.  This means PCIe x4 
> NIC's and a matching switch.
> 
> 
> >> And i think i'd like to stick with debian, but i would consider any free
> >> OS.  (So if i bought a Dell, i would add a disk drive or two, and boot off
> >> the debian disk, probably removing the windows disk.)
> >>
> >> I'd appreciate any pointers or recommendations.
> >>
> > 
> > And i forgot to add that i would like to be able to easily run qemu or
> > other virtual machines.  How would that affect the choice of processor,
> > amount of memory, and disks?
> 
> Get a processor with extensions that support virtualization.  For Intel, 
> that means VT-d, VT-x, etc.. A Core i5 or better should suffice for 
> desktop virtualization.  For a virtualization server, you want a Xeon.
> 
> 
> Another important consideration is memory -- non-ECC vs. ECC.  Desktop 
> stuff has the former, workstation and server stuff done right has the 
> latter.  STFW "memory error", "bit rot" and related.  I prefer computers 
> with ECC memory.

Just a few comments regarding workstations: my desktop is an HP Z440,
and I really like it. I purchased it used on eBay, where you can find
all sorts of Z420s and Z440s (as well as similar Dell Precisions, etc.)
at very affordable prices (e.g., $250~$300 for a system including a
decent Xeon and 16GB (ECC) RAM is common, and you may do substantially
better with a good deal, although you'll probably want / need to buy
drives, GPU, etc. separately). You can also go barebones and buy even
the processor and RAM separately.

The advantage of this route is great value for money, including Xeon
and ECC RAM compatibility, various other workstation features, and
excellent build quality.

There are, however, disadvantages as well (besides the fact that
anything used involves some risk): these types of machines can have
proprietary and non-standard aspects. E.g., I wasted a great deal of
time (and some money) during deployment of my Z440 when I made the
fatal decision to enable Secure Boot in the BIOS. When Secure Boot is
enabled, the system will fail to boot if it finds peripherals not in a
whitelist. The Z440 has no onboard graphics, and the consumer RX-570 I
had installed was definitely not on the whitelist, so the machine
refused to boot, and I couldn't disable Secure Boot without graphics
output. (Even blindly resetting CMOS may not work, since HP flashes a
code on the screen which you have to enter via the keyboard to confirm
changes, at least under certain circumstances.) I eventually wound up
spending $13 for a Nvidia NVS 315 that was on the whitelist, and then
another $8 for a DMS-59 adapter to make the thing work with a normal
monitor ...

But again, the advantages of the hardware quality once you get this
sort of nonsense ironed out are substantial ...

Celejar

Thread

on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 06:10 +0100
  Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 06:10 +0100
    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 07:50 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2021-03-07 11:10 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Kenneth Parker <sea7kenp@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 17:50 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-07 19:20 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? John Boxall <jboxall47@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 19:50 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-07 23:50 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-08 00:10 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 02:30 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-08 14:30 +0100
    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-07 09:50 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-07 10:00 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-07 19:20 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-07 20:00 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-09 11:00 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-09 16:00 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-09 17:00 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-09 18:50 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 11:00 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 20:10 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-07 20:20 +0100
    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-07 18:00 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 19:10 +0100
  Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 14:20 +0100
    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 19:00 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-07 20:10 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 01:10 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 01:20 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 01:40 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 02:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-08 03:10 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 03:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-09 05:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-09 06:20 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-09 14:20 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-09 14:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 11:00 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2021-03-10 12:30 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Gene Heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2021-03-09 18:10 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-09 22:20 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-03-09 16:10 +0100
                Modem MACs and how ISPs view them, was Re: on the verge of … David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-09 22:00 +0100
                Re: Modem MACs and how ISPs view them, was Re: on the verge of … Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2021-03-09 22:20 +0100
                Re: Modem MACs and how ISPs view them, was Re: on the verge of … IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 00:10 +0100
                Re: Modem MACs and how ISPs view them, was Re: on the verge of   … rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-03-10 00:20 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 01:30 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 01:40 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 01:50 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 02:00 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 02:10 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 02:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 02:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2021-03-08 18:30 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 02:00 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-03-09 11:20 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2021-03-08 09:20 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 14:00 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 01:30 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 01:50 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 02:30 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-08 04:10 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 22:20 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 23:00 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 00:20 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-10 01:00 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? Dan Hitt <dan.hitt@gmail.com> - 2021-03-10 01:30 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-10 03:30 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2021-03-10 06:20 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-08 20:40 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 23:10 +0100
  Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? ghe2001 <ghe2001@protonmail.com> - 2021-03-07 20:10 +0100
    Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-07 20:50 +0100
      Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 22:00 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-07 22:10 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2021-03-07 22:30 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2021-03-07 22:50 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-07 22:50 +0100
        Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 01:10 +0100
          Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-08 01:20 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 01:40 +0100
              Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-03-08 03:00 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,          recommendations? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2021-03-08 03:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2021-03-08 05:00 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-08 11:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-08 14:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2021-03-08 15:10 +0100
                power limiting via system controls (was: on the verge of ... songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-08 17:20 +0100
                Re: power limiting via system controls (was: on the verge of ... Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-03-08 18:10 +0100
                Re: power limiting via system controls (was: on the verge of ... songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-09 02:10 +0100
                Re: power limiting via system controls (was: on the verge of ... David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 22:40 +0100
                Re: power limiting via system controls (was: on the verge of ... songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2021-03-09 02:20 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 23:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-03-08 19:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,          recommendations? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2021-03-08 21:20 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? Tixy <tixy@yxit.co.uk> - 2021-03-09 09:10 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-08 11:40 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,          recommendations? Linux-Fan <Ma_Sys.ma@web.de> - 2021-03-08 13:10 +0100
                Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware, recommendations? The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-03-08 11:40 +0100
            Re: on the verge of shopping for new desktop hardware,  recommendations? David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2021-03-08 01:40 +0100

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