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Groups > linux.debian.user > #231772

Re: Conflicting alternatives

From David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: Conflicting alternatives
Date 2021-02-17 02:20 +0100
Message-ID <BJjFw-3cj-9@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
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On Tue 16 Feb 2021 at 19:19:52 (-0500), Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> I can't see any reason why it should be fundamentally hard to make
> >> dpkg/apt ignore some conflict/require statements.  Maybe it would take
> >> a fair bit of changes to the existing code if we want to make it work
> >> seamlessly (or maybe not, I don't know), but if so, it's only because
> >> the code was not written with such a situation in mind.
> >
> > So now we have a system with a broken (IMHO) apt running two
> > programs fighting non-cooperatively over the same resources
> > in order to be able to flip between them and test their
> > performance. It doesn't seem like a sensible evaluation.
> 
> The purpose of allowing installation of conflicting packages or allowing
> installation even in the absence of some dependency is so that the DDs
> don't need to care about such corner case usage patterns.
> 
> > Who's putting in the work to actually make two MTAs coexist?
> 
> The end users who decide to use the "ignore conflict" option.
> And they get to keep the pieces.
> 
> > Is this productive use of their time?
> 
> It's their (or my, in some cases) choice.
> 
> Instead of using such an option, I've had to edit the .deb packages and
> remove the "conflict" statements and do a few other such tweaks.
> I'd been much happier taking the same risks but without having to edit
> the .debs instead telling dpkg things "ignore this dependency" "ignore
> that conflict", "pretend this package has that other name".
> [ In my case, I've been doing that so as to keep many different
>   versions of Emacs installed: by and large they don't actually
>   conflict (in terms of overwriting the same files, for example).
>   Further in the past, I'd done such things to be able to install
>   the `gnome` package even tho I wanted to exclude one of the packages
>   it depended on because it conflicted with some other package that
>   I wanted to have installed.  ]
> 
> In all those cases, I think Debian's packagers made reasonable choices
> (e.g. I agree that Debian is overall better off with just `emacs`
> instead of `emacsNN`), they just didn't quite match my specific needs.
> 
> It'd be work in the DPKG/APT code, yes.  But it would require no extra
> work from the people doing the packaging.

But if you're seriously figuring out how to have, say, coexisting MTAs,
and fold that back into the Debian project, then I would have thought
that tweaking the Control fields is part of the deliverable.

In terms of this thread, I would say that emacs is user-y® (and
appears in /etc/alternatives a lot).

Cheers,
David.

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Thread

Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-16 10:00 +0100
  Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Georgi Naplatanov <gosho@oles.biz> - 2021-02-16 10:20 +0100
    Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-16 11:00 +0100
  Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-02-16 10:40 +0100
    Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-16 10:50 +0100
      Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-02-16 11:20 +0100
        Conflicting alternatives (was: Debian switchable MTA mechanism) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-02-16 15:20 +0100
          Re: Conflicting alternatives (was: Debian switchable MTA mechanism) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-16 17:10 +0100
            Re: Conflicting alternatives (was: Debian switchable MTA mechanism) didar <nosferatu@purlo.in> - 2021-02-16 17:30 +0100
          Re: Conflicting alternatives (was: Debian switchable MTA mechanism) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-02-16 17:30 +0100
            Re: Conflicting alternatives (was: Debian switchable MTA mechanism) Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-02-16 18:00 +0100
            Re: Conflicting alternatives Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-02-16 20:50 +0100
              Re: Conflicting alternatives <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-02-16 21:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-02-17 00:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives tomas@tuxteam.de - 2021-02-17 09:20 +0100
              Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-17 02:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-02-17 05:40 +0100
              Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-16 23:50 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-02-17 01:30 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-17 13:50 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-17 16:30 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-02-17 17:00 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-17 17:10 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2021-02-17 17:30 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2021-02-18 05:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-18 14:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-02-18 14:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2021-02-19 05:30 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-19 15:30 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-20 02:00 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-02-20 14:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-21 02:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-02-21 17:50 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-02-22 10:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-02-22 11:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-22 12:50 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-02-22 15:00 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-22 15:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-02-22 18:10 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-02-22 11:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-17 17:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-17 17:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-17 21:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-17 23:50 +0100
      Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-16 12:40 +0100
        Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-16 13:30 +0100
          Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-16 14:40 +0100
            Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-16 14:50 +0100
            Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-16 14:50 +0100
              Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-16 14:50 +0100
            Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-02-16 15:20 +0100
      Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-16 23:40 +0100
        Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-17 02:20 +0100
        Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-17 02:20 +0100
        Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-17 00:40 +0100
          Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-17 00:50 +0100
            Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-17 01:00 +0100
  Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-02-16 15:20 +0100
    Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-02-16 15:30 +0100
    Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2021-02-16 15:30 +0100

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