Re: Conflicting alternatives

From	Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.user
Subject	Re: Conflicting alternatives
Date	2021-02-17 01:30 +0100
Message-ID	<BJiT7-2Hl-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <BJ5Cx-24a-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <BJ9mN-4oe-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <BJboB-5xY-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <BJew9-7jV-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <BJhkl-1Gw-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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>> I can't see any reason why it should be fundamentally hard to make
>> dpkg/apt ignore some conflict/require statements.  Maybe it would take
>> a fair bit of changes to the existing code if we want to make it work
>> seamlessly (or maybe not, I don't know), but if so, it's only because
>> the code was not written with such a situation in mind.
>
> So now we have a system with a broken (IMHO) apt running two
> programs fighting non-cooperatively over the same resources
> in order to be able to flip between them and test their
> performance. It doesn't seem like a sensible evaluation.

The purpose of allowing installation of conflicting packages or allowing
installation even in the absence of some dependency is so that the DDs
don't need to care about such corner case usage patterns.

> Who's putting in the work to actually make two MTAs coexist?

The end users who decide to use the "ignore conflict" option.
And they get to keep the pieces.

> Is this productive use of their time?

It's their (or my, in some cases) choice.

Instead of using such an option, I've had to edit the .deb packages and
remove the "conflict" statements and do a few other such tweaks.
I'd been much happier taking the same risks but without having to edit
the .debs instead telling dpkg things "ignore this dependency" "ignore
that conflict", "pretend this package has that other name".
[ In my case, I've been doing that so as to keep many different
  versions of Emacs installed: by and large they don't actually
  conflict (in terms of overwriting the same files, for example).
  Further in the past, I'd done such things to be able to install
  the `gnome` package even tho I wanted to exclude one of the packages
  it depended on because it conflicted with some other package that
  I wanted to have installed.  ]

In all those cases, I think Debian's packagers made reasonable choices
(e.g. I agree that Debian is overall better off with just `emacs`
instead of `emacsNN`), they just didn't quite match my specific needs.

It'd be work in the DPKG/APT code, yes.  But it would require no extra
work from the people doing the packaging.


        Stefan

Thread

Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-16 10:00 +0100
  Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Georgi Naplatanov <gosho@oles.biz> - 2021-02-16 10:20 +0100
    Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-16 11:00 +0100
  Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-02-16 10:40 +0100
    Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-16 10:50 +0100
      Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-02-16 11:20 +0100
        Conflicting alternatives (was: Debian switchable MTA mechanism) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-02-16 15:20 +0100
          Re: Conflicting alternatives (was: Debian switchable MTA mechanism) Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-16 17:10 +0100
            Re: Conflicting alternatives (was: Debian switchable MTA mechanism) didar <nosferatu@purlo.in> - 2021-02-16 17:30 +0100
          Re: Conflicting alternatives (was: Debian switchable MTA mechanism) <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-02-16 17:30 +0100
            Re: Conflicting alternatives (was: Debian switchable MTA mechanism) Celejar <celejar@gmail.com> - 2021-02-16 18:00 +0100
            Re: Conflicting alternatives Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-02-16 20:50 +0100
              Re: Conflicting alternatives <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2021-02-16 21:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-02-17 00:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives tomas@tuxteam.de - 2021-02-17 09:20 +0100
              Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-17 02:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-02-17 05:40 +0100
              Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-16 23:50 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2021-02-17 01:30 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-17 13:50 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-17 16:30 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives The Wanderer <wanderer@fastmail.fm> - 2021-02-17 17:00 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-17 17:10 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2021-02-17 17:30 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2021-02-18 05:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-18 14:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-02-18 14:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Richard Hector <richard@walnut.gen.nz> - 2021-02-19 05:30 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-19 15:30 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-20 02:00 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-02-20 14:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-21 02:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-02-21 17:50 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2021-02-22 10:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-02-22 11:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-22 12:50 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-02-22 15:00 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-22 15:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-02-22 18:10 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Curt <curty@free.fr> - 2021-02-22 11:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-17 17:20 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-17 17:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-17 21:40 +0100
                Re: Conflicting alternatives Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-17 23:50 +0100
      Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-16 12:40 +0100
        Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-16 13:30 +0100
          Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-16 14:40 +0100
            Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-16 14:50 +0100
            Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-16 14:50 +0100
              Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2021-02-16 14:50 +0100
            Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism rhkramer@gmail.com - 2021-02-16 15:20 +0100
      Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-16 23:40 +0100
        Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-17 02:20 +0100
        Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2021-02-17 02:20 +0100
        Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-17 00:40 +0100
          Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-17 00:50 +0100
            Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Kevin Shell <kshell@gmx.com> - 2021-02-17 01:00 +0100
  Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Semih Ozlem <semihozlemlinuxuser@gmail.com> - 2021-02-16 15:20 +0100
    Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism IL Ka <kazakevichilya@gmail.com> - 2021-02-16 15:30 +0100
    Re: Debian switchable MTA mechanism Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2021-02-16 15:30 +0100

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