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Re: Please be respectful

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On 10/15/2020 5:05 PM, Pierre-Elliott B�cue wrote:
> Le mercredi 14 octobre 2020 � 02:12:45-0700, Weaver a �crit�:
>> On 14-10-2020 18:30, Christoph K. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 23:06:55 -0700
>>> Weaver wrote <weaver@riseup.net>:
>>>
>>>>> "as I learnt to read years ago,"
>>>> It's appropriate sarcasm.
>>>
>>> Disagreed.
>>> It's simply disrespectful.
>>>
>>>
>>>> For those who require spoon feeding:
>>>
>>> As is this comment, too.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sarcasm can be fun sometimes, but I believe it's no appropriate way to
>>> communicate on debian mailing lists. It can lead to misunderstandings and
>>> people being hurt, apart from making a bad impressions on others reading
>>> this list.
>>>
>>> Please re-read the Debian Code of Conduct and consider being more polite:
>>> https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
>>
>> Being polite is a standard that has to apply to all.
>> I consider the original post not to be.
>> To me I see an outstanding example of laziness from somebody who
>> obviously needs no consideration in the accessibility department.
>> Scrolling an alphabetically arranged file system doesn't even qualify as
>> trivial.
> 
> When the displayed file list contains hundreds or thousands of
> files/directories, and you don't know the first letters of their name,
> looking for a substring or a fuzzy pattern by hand with your eyes and
> via scrolling qualifies as not-at-all trivial.

	True enough, but then the same is true of a list of badly associated 
names, if not moreso.

>> It can be accomplished as quickly as you can move your hand.
>> The use of find and/or locate will dig up anything, no matter how deeply
>> hidden in a plethora of directories.
> 
> The question is about a GUI file manager with a specific feature, not
> about a command line way of doing it.

	The point - or my point anyway - is rather than seeking to tack on a 
whole bunch of poorly considered features to a poorly considered 
fundamental utility, well considered, powerful, highly configurable 
solutions such as "find" should be encouraged.


> The debian-user list is a communication medium where each and any user
> of Debian, from "newbie" to "expert" to ask questions and share their
> knowledge about the project and its features.

	Why talk about Debian, irrespective of what list this is, when a more 
powerful, simpler, more fundamental utility is available on *ALL* distros?

> While many users are comfortable with "posting bugs" and "filing
> issues", some are not, and are more used to ask for help. It's not

	Your point escapes me.

> laziness, it's a state of mind. And you probably have relatives who do
> the same.

	Again, your point somewhat escapes me.  Laziness is a state of mind, so 
your statement is simply nonsense.  It is also in many cases 
fundamentally untrue that the outlook is not a result of laziness. 
Often it most certainly is.  Sometimes it is not a result of laziness. 
Regardless, it is a limited and weak outlook.

> If you have troubles with such users

	I have trouble with such attitudes, particularly when it winds up badly 
impacting by ability to get things done.  Every year I see Debian being 
degraded by a desire to cater to attitudes which should not be 
countenanced, let alone accommodated.

, you can just ignore their mails
> and answer to the things that you feel are interesting for you. This
> would spare you some time, and a part of the Community wouldn't feel
> driven out by another one.

	I am in no way concerned by who may or may not be driven out, and 
neither do these people for who you and others seem to have so much 
consideration.  They want what they want, regardless of how foolish it 
might be or how it impacts those who want to have maximal control over 
their systems.

> Being eager to live in a world where everyone is not the same, and where
> people feel like using the Distribution I contribute to, I'd rather you
> not chosing for me which user has a right to ask questions here.

	Everyone should have a right to ask questions and to express their 
opinions.  That includes Weaver, and if someone gets their feeling hurt 
over it, that is just tough.  Do I think he too the best tack for 
expressing himself?  No I do not.  That in and of itself in no way 
either validates nor invalidates his point of view, which despite his 
rather poor means of expression nonetheless has a valid core.

	Catering to noobs in any other than a very perfunctory fashion is quite 
simply a very, very bad idea.  Catering to them at the expense of more 
experienced uses is simply and completely unacceptable.  So, frankly, is 
catering to the unintelligent at the expense of the more intelligent.

	I am not saying the "elite" are any more important than the "unwashed" 
as it were, but they are no less important, either, and certainly not 
merely due to their relative paucity of numbers.

	My main point, however, is it is not impossible, or indeed even 
difficult to cater to both needs.  All it requires is some thought and 
preparation.  I will give an example.  Suppose a developer is creating a 
utility called Frumplesticks.  Now, he can create this as a very 
powerful CLI application with a lot of subtle variations or else with a 
text-based configuration file, or he can create a GUI, right?

	WRONG!!!  Create the fundamental utility with either CLI or text 
configuration (or both), and then create some sort of UI front end that 
cvers many of the most common features.  Then anyone who feels 
uncomfortable using a CLI or text file can use FstxUI until they get 
more of a feel for the app, while the rest of us play with fxtxc and / 
or frumplesticks.conf.  Along the way, anyone who started out with 
FstxUI can get more comfortable with the text based solutions.

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Thread

one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager kaye n <guikaye@gmail.com> - 2020-10-13 04:00 +0200
  Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-13 04:20 +0200
    Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager kaye n <guikaye@gmail.com> - 2020-10-14 06:30 +0200
      Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-14 08:10 +0200
        Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-10-14 10:30 +0200
          Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager kaye n <guikaye@gmail.com> - 2020-10-14 13:20 +0200
          Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2020-10-14 18:30 +0200
        Please be respectful (was: one thing i don't like about Thunar file  manager) "Christoph K." <christoph@kobenetz.de> - 2020-10-14 10:40 +0200
          Re: Please be respectful Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-14 11:20 +0200
            Re: Please be respectful Thomas Pircher <thp+debian@p5r.uk> - 2020-10-14 12:30 +0200
            Re: Please be respectful "Christoph K." <christoph@kobenetz.de> - 2020-10-14 17:40 +0200
            Re: Please be respectful Jonathan Dowland <jon+debian-user@dow.land> - 2020-10-15 15:50 +0200
              Re: Please be respectful grumpy@mailfence.com - 2020-10-15 16:10 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Felmon Davis <moelmoel2714@gmail.com> - 2020-10-15 16:30 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-24 10:20 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Dan Ritter <dsr@randomstring.org> - 2020-10-24 18:50 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Doug McGarrett <dmcgarrett@optonline.net> - 2020-10-24 19:30 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Peter Ehlert <peter@sdi-baja.com> - 2020-10-15 17:40 +0200
            Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-16 00:20 +0200
              Re: Please be respectful Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-10-16 02:20 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-16 12:00 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Leslie Rhorer <lesrhorer@att.net> - 2020-10-16 23:50 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Michael uplawski <linux-gate@don.blech.e4ward.com> - 2020-10-17 07:30 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-17 07:40 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-17 23:10 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-18 03:50 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-18 04:10 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-18 14:30 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Jan Foniok <jan.foniok@pikomat.mff.cuni.cz> - 2020-10-25 10:50 +0100
                Re: Please be respectful Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-10-25 21:10 +0100
                Re: Please be respectful Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-18 04:10 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Michael uplawski <linux-gate@don.blech.e4ward.com> - 2020-10-18 12:50 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-18 14:40 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-24 18:50 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2020-10-24 19:40 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful john doe <johndoe65534@mail.com> - 2020-10-24 19:50 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2020-10-24 22:20 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-10-17 09:00 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Weaver <weaver@riseup.net> - 2020-10-17 10:40 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-10-26 14:00 +0100
                Re: Please be respectful Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2020-10-26 15:00 +0100
                Re: Please be respectful ellanios82 <ellanios82@gmail.com> - 2020-10-26 15:50 +0100
                Re: Please be respectful <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-17 10:20 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful "Christoph K." <christoph@kobenetz.de> - 2020-10-18 13:50 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Long Wind <longwind2@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-18 14:00 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-18 14:20 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2020-10-18 16:50 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful Long Wind <longwind2@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-19 14:00 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-19 14:20 +0200
                Re: Please be respectful <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2020-10-24 16:10 +0200
      Re: one thing i don't like about Thunar file manager riveravaldez <riveravaldezmail@gmail.com> - 2020-10-14 08:40 +0200

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