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Groups > comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage > #2265
| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage |
| Subject | Re: IDE or AHCI ? |
| Date | 2012-01-05 07:37 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <9mjrk3F7hjU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | <jdvhfu$5o3$1@dont-email.me> <4f03de83$1@news.bnb-lp.com> <hPWdnT07Memqm5nSnZ2dnUVZ7oadnZ2d@lyse.net> <9mikluFi92U1@mid.individual.net> <bMCdnWLHAIfDxZnSnZ2dnUVZ8rmdnZ2d@lyse.net> |
David Brown wrote > Rod Speed wrote >> David Brown wrote >>> Yousuf Khan wrote >>>> Lynn McGuire wrote >>>>> What is the fastest hard drive access method for Windows 7 x64, IDE or AHCI ? I have a WD 1 TB caviar black, a >>>>> Gigabyte >>>>> z68xp-ud5 motherboard and a Intel I3-2500K with 8 GB of ram. >>>>> I see these thoughts: >>>>> <http://expertester.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/ahci-vs-ide-%E2%80%93-benchmark-advantage/ >>>>> <http://tweaks.com/windows/44119/improve-sata-hard-disk-performance-convert-from-ide-to-ahci/> >>>> I did the switch to AHCI back in the Windows XP days. At that >>>> time it was a difficult transition as there were no default AHCI >>>> drivers, and switching to AHCI without doing some preparation >>>> meant that your OS would not boot. It's still not an easy switch >>>> with Windows 7 either, you basically have to install Windows 7 >>>> with AHCI already enabled or else it'll default to IDE and not >>>> include the AHCI drivers in the install. Otherwise, switching to >>>> AHCI after installing Win 7 is already installed is nearly as >>>> difficult as XP. Linux could use either type transparently, not >>>> sure why Microsoft didn't make it as simple with its own drivers. >>> It's hard to comprehend MS's difficulty here. >> For you, sure. >>> There is little measurable difference in performance between IDE mode and AHCI mode, >> Yes. >>> but people often /perceive/ "native SATA" mode as newer and faster than "IDE emulation" mode. >> More fool them. >>> So even if you can't measure a difference, >> Corse you can. >>> it still seems absurd that you have to jump through hoops to run "native SATA". >> Why when the difference is so trivial ? > You do realise you are arguing against yourself here, don't you? Like hell I am. > First you agree that there is only a trivial difference in performance between IDE and AHCI modes, I didnt agree with your TRIVIAL claim, just what you actually said, LITTLE difference. > then you argue that "of course" you can measure it, Her first link clearly shows that it can be measured. > then you argue that there is little point in using it (on Windows) since the differences are trivial... No I did not. One obvious reason to use it is if you use the hot plugging. > Back to reality. You wouldnt know what reality was if bit you on your lard arse. > Yes, the performance differences are trivial. Not always. > Yes, they /can/ be measured - but the differences are below the noise threshold for most windows machines. That is just plain wrong. > To measure them, you have to be careful about test conditions, background services, repetition of the tests, clean > installs, etc. Wrong, as always. > That's fine for a website specialising in tests and benchmarks, but of little use to most people. Irrelevant to it providing support for hot plugging that IDE does not. > However, whatever the technical benefits (or lack thereof) of using AHCI instead of IDE, user perception and > expectation should be important to a supplier like MS. Mindlessly silly. > The effort needed to get hard drive drivers in place and working in Windows, Is completely trivial with Win7 > and the scope for getting it wrong and causing problems, Thats a lie with Win7. > is just silly when you look at how simple it is with Linux. Its even simpler with Win7. >>>> After doing the switch, I find absolutely no difference in performance. However, I do have an external eSATA drive >>>> which can be enabled and disabled on the fly just like a USB drive. I think if I were still using IDE drivers, that >>>> wouldn't be nearly as easy though. >>> There are two main differences in practice between SATA and IDE >>> modes. One is hotplug, as you mentioned, and the other is NCQ - >>> native command queueing. (There are also a few other SATA >>> commands, such as SSD trim and secure erase.) >>> NCQ won't make a significant difference in Linux, since it has always had good algorithms to order disk accesses to >>> minimise head movement. >> And so does Win. > I wasn't talking about Windows here. You clearly were. >>> It will sometimes make things worse, such as when the OS wants to enforce a particular order (for transactions to >>> filesystem journals, for example). And NCQ doesn't help windows much either >> Wrong. > No, it is correct - NCQ doesn't help windows much. Depends on how you define much and which sort of work you are talking about. > Benchmarks vary, as it depends heavily on the usage patterns. And it does help some usage patterns significantly. > It is a win in some cases, Yes. > and a loss on others Hardly ever in many real world situations. > - but seldom by particularly large margins. Only because most real work isnt particularly drive IO bound anymore. >>> - after all, it only applies when you do more than one thing at a time. >> Which Win does all the time. > I knew that would provoke you :-) You spew mindless silly shit, you can be quite confident that I will point that out if I notice that and can be bothered to expose you stupiditys for the world to laugh at, again.
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IDE or AHCI ? Lynn McGuire <lmc@winsim.com> - 2012-01-03 12:30 -0600
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-03 21:05 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "arno fucker" <af@arnofucker.com> - 2012-01-04 12:41 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-04 12:58 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2012-01-04 00:07 -0500
Re: IDE or AHCI ? David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2012-01-04 08:53 +0100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-04 20:32 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2012-01-04 14:44 +0100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-05 07:37 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-01-04 22:56 +0100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-05 09:48 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Ed Light <nobody@nobody.there> - 2012-01-04 21:40 -0800
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2012-01-05 05:37 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-05 17:37 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2012-01-04 09:29 -0500
Re: IDE or AHCI ? David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2012-01-04 16:04 +0100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-04 19:19 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-01-04 23:14 +0100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-05 08:47 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-05 07:51 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-04 19:16 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-05 07:41 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2012-01-05 14:44 -0500
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-06 17:35 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Krypsis <krypsis@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-01-07 00:05 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-06 20:04 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2012-01-06 21:13 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net> - 2012-01-06 20:42 -0600
Re: IDE or AHCI ? David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-01-07 13:48 +0100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-07 14:09 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2012-01-07 14:36 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Krypsis <krypsis@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-01-08 02:11 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2012-01-09 12:06 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-09 16:27 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2012-01-09 17:36 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2012-01-09 17:41 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Winniethepooh@100acrewoods.net (GMAN) - 2012-01-09 19:07 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-01-09 20:12 +0100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2012-01-09 21:00 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2012-01-09 11:31 -0500
Re: IDE or AHCI ? David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-01-07 17:10 +0100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2012-01-10 14:18 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2012-01-09 11:23 -0500
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-09 16:30 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-01-09 20:16 +0100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? cjt <cheljuba@prodigy.net> - 2012-01-09 17:13 -0600
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-07 08:11 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Krypsis <krypsis@optusnet.com.au> - 2012-01-08 01:23 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-08 06:43 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? JW <none@dev.null> - 2012-01-09 05:23 -0500
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2012-01-09 10:24 -0500
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-10 09:34 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2012-01-09 20:04 -0500
Re: IDE or AHCI ? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2012-01-10 15:33 +1100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-06 09:48 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2012-01-09 11:35 -0500
Re: IDE or AHCI ? David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-01-09 20:23 +0100
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-10 11:31 +0000
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2012-01-20 06:54 -0500
Re: IDE or AHCI ? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2012-01-04 19:14 +0000
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