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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #613712
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
|---|---|
| Date | 2023-06-25 10:55 -0700 |
| References | (21 earlier) <d1c7d70d-3f81-4969-9e10-71171e5263afn@googlegroups.com> <e4e0b2de-c954-4427-b4c7-fa5fd29a1e2bn@googlegroups.com> <93ed60a1-541f-4d14-bcb6-d72485043878n@googlegroups.com> <ee3760fa-957d-4e9d-af0c-a748ae2361bdn@googlegroups.com> <b541900e-3e89-4a02-937c-1d691ba79ec3n@googlegroups.com> |
| Message-ID | <94b04008-e5ad-4abb-b2de-a17bebfa2acdn@googlegroups.com> (permalink) |
| Subject | Re: Einstein and Big Ben |
| From | Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> |
On Sunday, June 25, 2023 at 12:54:57 AM UTC-7, patdolan wrote:
> > > > This from the dolt who claims the relation (-1)^2 = (1)^2 rigorously implies -1 = 1.
> > >
> > > That is not my claim at all. My claim is that i^4 = i^8 and the law of exponent rigorously implies -1 = 1.
> >
> > LOL. That's what I said. Since i^2 = -1, your claim is that the relation (-1)^2 = (1)^2 implies -1 = 1. Wow. There's even a section in the Wikipedia page on Math Fallacies on this kind of idiocy.
> > >
> > > i^4 = i^8
> > > sqrt[ i^4 ] = sqrt[ i^8 ]
> >
> > LOL. Nope. There you are, as I said, assuming that the relation (-1)^2 = (1)^2 implies -1 = 1.
>
> Nowhere do I assume or type this.
You assumed it (and typed it) in the quote above. Again, since i^2 = -1 and (-1)^2 = 1 unequivocally, your first equality is simply (-1)^2 = (1)^2, and sure enough, the values of the left and right sides are both 1, so you are asserting that 1=1. An auspicious start!
But then you assume that this implies sqrt(1) = sqrt(1), which is not unequivocally true, because the expression "sqrt(1)" signifies a number whose square is 1, and there are two such numbers, namely +1 and -1. If you specify that you are referring to +1 on both sides, or that you are referring to -1 on both sides, then equality holds and your second assertion amounts to, again, 1=1. So you're typing the same trivial thing repeatedly. ("All work and no play makes jack a dull boy.") But of course you're not trying to just assert 1=1, you are trying to assert -1=1, which obviously doesn't validly follow.
Look, consider the equality sin(0)=sin(pi). Now we take the inverse sine of both sides, and assert that 0 = pi. Well, that's precisely isomorphic to what you're doing, trying to infer from a relation of the form f(x)=f(y) that x=y. If the inverse of f is a multi-valued function, such as inverse sine or square root, that is an obviously false inference. (Now, for multi-valued functions, people sometimes adopt a convention of defining the "principal value", but in the grown-up world the principal value of a function is distinct from the function.)
> My valid derivation of a contradiction cleverly exploits the cyclic nature of the powers
> of i and the law of exponents.
There's nothing clever about what you're doing, it's blatently invalid reasoning, as explained above. What you're describing is standard fallacy, common among slow-witted school children.
> Long ago an ad hoc rule was added to arithmetic ... That law expressly
> forbad moving a negative sign under a radical sign...
Moving a negative sign from outside to inside a radical sign is not an "ad hoc rule", it is an obviously fallacious mistake. Again, this is a very common befuddlement for slow-witted 4th grade school children. The values of -sqrt(1) are +1 and -1, whereas the values of sqrt(-1) are +i and -i. So, "bringing a negative sign inside a radical" is simply a trivial mistake. It's the same as thinking that -cos(x) equals cos(-x)... duh.
> Did you just accept it ... when in college the professor drew the yellow
> chalk coordinate system on top of the white chalk coordinate system and
> all of a sudden you believed in relativity?
The point is that, regardless of whether the trajectory of the ball is described in terms of the white coordinate system or the yellow coordinate system, it still goes into the cup. Yes, the coordinates of the ball at the end of its journey are different, but the coordinates of the cup are also different, and they match, so the ball goes into the cup. Your belief that, when described in terms of one system it goes into the cup, but when described in terms of the other system it must physically karoom into the sand trap is just bizzare.
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Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-15 08:14 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-06-15 08:23 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-15 09:35 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-15 16:17 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-15 17:57 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-15 19:08 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-15 22:45 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-06-15 23:01 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-16 01:21 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2023-06-16 15:18 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 06:24 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-16 07:54 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-06-16 17:15 +0000
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-16 10:29 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-06-16 20:22 +0000
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-06-17 17:39 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-17 09:27 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2023-06-17 09:40 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-06-17 17:38 +0000
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2023-06-19 13:24 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-19 16:32 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-06-19 16:41 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2023-06-19 16:50 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-19 17:06 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2023-06-19 18:47 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-19 21:57 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-20 03:30 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-20 06:52 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-20 08:02 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-20 10:29 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-06-20 20:47 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-20 11:48 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-20 12:09 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-20 18:04 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-20 19:35 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-20 20:41 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-21 09:41 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-21 18:46 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-22 10:25 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-22 16:51 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-22 17:51 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-22 19:40 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-06-22 21:29 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-23 07:57 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-23 16:37 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-23 17:45 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-23 18:36 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-24 12:17 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-24 14:23 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-24 14:46 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-24 18:06 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-06-25 03:10 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-24 20:40 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-24 20:53 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-24 21:24 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-24 21:40 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-24 22:13 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-06-24 22:30 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-24 22:53 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-06-24 23:55 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-24 23:40 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-25 00:18 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-06-25 00:28 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-06-25 00:30 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-25 00:47 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-25 00:54 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-25 10:55 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-25 16:05 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-26 02:29 -0700
Re: Einsteine Miquel Niftrik <lile@iulmqnqu.ni> - 2023-06-26 13:47 +0000
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-26 06:56 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-06-26 07:20 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-06-26 14:02 -0400
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-26 11:12 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-06-26 15:33 -0400
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-06-26 12:52 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-06-26 11:36 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-26 09:33 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-26 11:46 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-06-26 12:11 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-26 12:17 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-26 16:24 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-26 18:12 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-26 18:37 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-26 18:41 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-26 19:22 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-26 19:30 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-26 19:48 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-26 19:51 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-26 21:11 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-26 21:31 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-26 21:33 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-26 22:54 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-27 07:53 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-06-27 17:34 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-06-27 16:19 +0000
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-27 09:41 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-06-27 18:42 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-27 09:54 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-06-27 19:05 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-06-27 11:07 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-27 11:52 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-27 12:44 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-27 13:00 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-27 13:03 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-06-27 22:07 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-27 13:34 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-06-27 22:44 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-06-27 21:38 +0000
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-06-27 23:39 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2023-06-27 21:51 +0000
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Python <python@invalid.org> - 2023-06-27 23:54 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-27 14:52 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-27 16:33 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-27 17:49 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-27 20:43 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-27 20:55 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-27 21:00 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-28 01:10 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-28 01:26 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-28 06:38 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-28 07:55 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-28 08:10 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-28 08:58 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-28 08:14 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-06-28 09:21 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-28 09:50 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-28 09:52 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-28 10:32 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-28 10:46 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-28 11:10 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-28 11:16 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-28 11:52 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-06-28 20:57 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-28 16:05 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-28 17:24 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-28 19:06 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-28 22:57 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2023-06-28 12:01 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-06-28 14:34 -0400
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Braxton Ramakers <ssor@ekrattrt.mr> - 2023-06-28 21:31 +0000
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Woodrow Aalst <soas@ooaowlat.ow> - 2023-06-28 21:41 +0000
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-06-28 22:29 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-27 13:06 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-25 09:44 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-06-22 20:48 -0500
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-22 19:06 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2023-06-23 05:19 -0500
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel.cb@gmail.com> - 2023-06-23 11:13 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-06-23 02:22 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-06-25 07:25 +0200
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 12:13 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-16 13:01 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 16:33 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-16 17:22 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 18:17 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-16 19:02 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-16 22:15 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-17 09:24 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-17 10:44 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-17 11:11 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-17 12:12 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-17 19:07 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-18 14:34 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-19 11:13 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Trevor Lange <trevorlange97@gmail.com> - 2023-06-19 12:04 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-19 12:20 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-06-19 14:40 -0500
Re: Einstein and Big Ben patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2023-06-19 16:04 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Tom Roberts <tjoberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2023-06-19 19:34 -0500
Re: Einstein and Big Ben Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-06-19 23:29 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-06-20 23:31 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2023-06-18 19:58 -0700
Re: Einstein and Big Ben The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2023-06-15 23:26 -0700
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