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Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM?

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On Friday, 2 September 2016 12:51:52 UTC+10, nu...@bid.nes  wrote:
> On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 2:31:57 AM UTC-7, jpopov...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Faraday's initial electricity experiments were in the 1820s and 30s.  If an
> > alien civilization had exquisite EM detection sensitivity, excellent
> > understanding of stellar physics (to sort out stellar noise from an unnatural
> > EM emission) and the ability to respond immediately, how far away could the
> > first responding civilization be? Wouldn't the answer be about 90-95 Light
> > years away?
> 
>   Do you know the term "effective radiated power"? It's the energy per unit time emitted from a specified type of antenna in a particular direction, irrespective of losses in the transmitting system other than antenna inefficiency. To be an antenna worthy of the name, it must be a conductor whose length is either in the neighborhood of the same length as the wavelength of the frequency you want to transmit at (resonant half-wave, full-wave dipole, etc.), or so many multiples long that you can radiate at many frequencies (non-resonant long wire). In either case feeding them is tricky. That's a VERY inadequate description by the way; antenna design very quickly starts to look like Black Magic after you dig into it. Nonetheless, those statements are always true.
> 
>    Faraday never worked with a whole lot of power to begin with, and certainly knew nothing of antenna design and optimization. Worse, he worked exclusively with direct current, so his equipment could only radiate when current was started or stopped within it, in "spikes" of energy, not continuous trains of waves. Plus, had he known that his equipment was radiating and thus "wasting" energy, he'd have tried to STOP it from radiating so he could do what he was actually trying to do.
> 
>   The conductors he used were far too long to serve as resonators for those spikes, and long-wires don't radiate directionally especially when those wires aren't straight and when many long-wires, all with bends and curlicues, are transmitting those spikes such that they interfere with each other. Any directionality would be completely accidental and would change when he changed the experimental setup.
> 
>   So, best case he's transmitting a watt or so per spike, isotropically (the energy radiates in all directions rather than being beamed), and intermittently. His signals, if any, would have similar characteristics to those of distance lightning strikes.
> 
>   Your average cellphone emits up to five watts with an antenna carefully designed to maximize emission, and they're not hard to make directional. Even then their top range is a couple of miles, weather permitting.
> 
>   So no, ETs at any distance had no chance at all to hear Faraday any more than they could have heard the alleged Baghdad battery being hooked up to electroplate metal objects much longer ago.
> 
> 
>   Mark L. Fergerson

Sounds like the answer is "No, the effective power of Faraday's accidental yet unnatural EM emissions would be so low that they would not be detectable from interstellar distances.  In any case the emissions would not be sufficiently unnatural to provide evidence of a contactable intelligence."

So that makes an interesting question "when did human EM emissions, whether deliberate or no, become sufficiently powerful and unnatural to provide proof to an advanced technological intelligence that someone down here is capable of listening to a transmission? And therefore how far away could a responding civilisation be that we could receive a deliberately beamed response?"

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Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? jpopovaclark@gmail.com - 2016-09-01 02:31 -0700
  Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 11:20 -0700
  Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-01 15:01 -0500
  Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 19:51 -0700
    Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? jpopovaclark@gmail.com - 2016-09-01 22:41 -0700
      Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-02 08:47 -0500
        Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-02 10:35 -0500
      Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-09-02 09:19 -0700
        Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? jpopovaclark@gmail.com - 2016-09-06 18:28 -0700
    Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-03 21:31 -0400
      Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-03 19:58 -0700
        Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-05 18:07 -0400
          Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-05 23:59 +0000
            Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-05 22:26 -0400
              Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-06 04:56 +0000
          Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-05 19:16 -0500
          Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 19:46 -0700
            Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-05 23:34 -0400
          Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-09-06 10:13 -0700

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