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Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM?

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benj <benj@nobody.net> wrote:
> On 9/3/2016 10:58 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 3, 2016 at 6:31:58 PM UTC-7, benj wrote:
>>> On 9/1/2016 10:51 PM, nuny@bid.nes wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, September 1, 2016 at 2:31:57 AM UTC-7,
>>>> jpopov...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Faraday's initial electricity experiments were in the 1820s and
>>>>> 30s.  If an alien civilization had exquisite EM detection
>>>>> sensitivity, excellent understanding of stellar physics (to sort
>>>>> out stellar noise from an unnatural EM emission) and the ability to
>>>>> respond immediately, how far away could the first responding
>>>>> civilization be? Wouldn't the answer be about 90-95 Light years
>>>>> away?
>>>>
>>>> Do you know the term "effective radiated power"? It's the energy per
>>>> unit time emitted from a specified type of antenna in a particular
>>>> direction, irrespective of losses in the transmitting system other
>>>> than antenna inefficiency. To be an antenna worthy of the name, it
>>>> must be a conductor whose length is either in the neighborhood of the
>>>> same length as the wavelength of the frequency you want to transmit
>>>> at (resonant half-wave, full-wave dipole, etc.), or so many multiples
>>>> long that you can radiate at many frequencies (non-resonant long
>>>> wire). In either case feeding them is tricky. That's a VERY
>>>> inadequate description by the way; antenna design very quickly starts
>>>> to look like Black Magic after you dig into it. Nonetheless, those
>>>> statements are always true.
>>>>
>>>> Faraday never worked with a whole lot of power to begin with, and
>>>> certainly knew nothing of antenna design and optimization. Worse, he
>>>> worked exclusively with direct current, so his equipment could only
>>>> radiate when current was started or stopped within it, in "spikes" of
>>>> energy, not continuous trains of waves. Plus, had he known that his
>>>> equipment was radiating and thus "wasting" energy, he'd have tried to
>>>> STOP it from radiating so he could do what he was actually trying to
>>>> do.
>>>>
>>>> The conductors he used were far too long to serve as resonators for
>>>> those spikes, and long-wires don't radiate directionally especially
>>>> when those wires aren't straight and when many long-wires, all with
>>>> bends and curlicues, are transmitting those spikes such that they
>>>> interfere with each other. Any directionality would be completely
>>>> accidental and would change when he changed the experimental setup.
>>>>
>>>> So, best case he's transmitting a watt or so per spike, isotropically
>>>> (the energy radiates in all directions rather than being beamed), and
>>>> intermittently. His signals, if any, would have similar
>>>> characteristics to those of distance lightning strikes.
>>>>
>>>> Your average cellphone emits up to five watts with an antenna
>>>> carefully designed to maximize emission, and they're not hard to make
>>>> directional. Even then their top range is a couple of miles, weather
>>>> permitting.
>>>>
>>>> So no, ETs at any distance had no chance at all to hear Faraday any
>>>> more than they could have heard the alleged Baghdad battery being
>>>> hooked up to electroplate metal objects much longer ago.
>>>
>>> No question you have approached this question in a logical and
>>> scientific way with correct assumptions and calculations. The only
>>> problem with questions like this and answers like yours, Mark, is that
>>> ETs have ways of sensing electrical activity that you know nothing about.
>>
>>   And, you know this by way of your ESP?
>>
>>   Signal detection limits over large distances are physics limits, not technology limits. Aliens 90-95 LY away could build receiving antennas as large as this solar system and still not be able to identify Faraday's emissions. They were just too weak, and spectrally indistinguishable from natural sources at that.
>>
>>   Tesla is a different matter; at the power levels he liked to play with, and the high frequencies, and his conviction that he'd picked up signals from Mars, he could have easily transmitted readable signals 100 LY away. For all we know he did, but any EM reply wouldn't get here for about another century.
>>
>>
>>   Mark L. Fergerson
> 
> You still don't get it, Mark. You dredge up all your electromagnetic 
> rules and "prove" something is "impossible" without understanding that 
> you don't know everything. A typical example of this sort of thing was 
> when Tesla's professor "proved" that an electric motor MUST have a 
> commutator! Get the picture? All you've proved is that aliens could not 
> sense if Faraday was doing something using OUR kind of EM receivers. So 
> did God know? Yes? So that "proves" that Faraday's activities produced 
> SOME other kind of signal than the EM ones you just "proved" can't be 
> it. Right? :-)

If that crap wan't tongue in cheek, you have gone off the deep end.
 
> You've got to stop blindly accepting all the crap HVAC spewed out here. 
> He's a journalist loser who knows no science.

You've got to stop obsessing over HVAC.


-- 
Jim Pennino

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Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? jpopovaclark@gmail.com - 2016-09-01 02:31 -0700
  Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 11:20 -0700
  Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-01 15:01 -0500
  Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-01 19:51 -0700
    Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? jpopovaclark@gmail.com - 2016-09-01 22:41 -0700
      Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-02 08:47 -0500
        Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-02 10:35 -0500
      Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-09-02 09:19 -0700
        Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? jpopovaclark@gmail.com - 2016-09-06 18:28 -0700
    Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-03 21:31 -0400
      Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-03 19:58 -0700
        Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-05 18:07 -0400
          Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-05 23:59 +0000
            Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-05 22:26 -0400
              Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2016-09-06 04:56 +0000
          Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-05 19:16 -0500
          Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-09-05 19:46 -0700
            Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2016-09-05 23:34 -0400
          Re: Would Faraday's original experiments have generated intelligent EM? edprochak@gmail.com - 2016-09-06 10:13 -0700

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