Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #153259

Re: high level language idea

From	Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: high level language idea
Date	2015-10-23 11:20 -0700
Organization	Wheeler&Wheeler
Message-ID	<87y4etsayj.fsf@lhwserver.localdomain> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <2p-dnUImsuFZebrLnZ2dnUU7-TWdnZ2d@giganews.com> <v9pf2b5qu755k8vcm2493bmismc2jj2320@4ax.com> <6uudnWwjqLB1qbTLnZ2dnUU7-VOdnZ2d@giganews.com> <d8v03hFcoufU1@mid.individual.net> <1962268566.467307460.451955.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>

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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> it was all open-source.  No need to reverse-engineer anything. As late as
> MVS/XA I had a VSAM open exit where the call location had to be gleaned by
> looking at the fiche and disassembling the PL/S module, although it started
> out as a straightforward source update in MVS/370.
>
> I think JES2, or most of it, is still distributed as source, because so
> many users had so many different mods.  Out JES guy had tons and knew the
> jes code i side and out.

I've periodically mentioned that litigation resulted in 23June1969
unbundle, starting to charge for (application) software, SE services,
maint., etc. ... some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#unbundle

however, the company manage to make the case that kernel (operating
system) software should still be free. Somewhat because of the
clone processor makers get market foothold during the FS period
(because of lack of 370 products) ... some past FS posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

there is a decision to transition to start charging for (new) kernel
software ... there is period during the late 70s and early 80s, where
parts of kernel were free and other parts were charged for ...  you can
see this in the hercules simulator project that has the latest "free"
software. Eventually transition is made to charging for all software
... about the same time as the OCO-wars (object code only ... no longer
shipping source). computerworld article from google books
https://books.google.com/books?id=hSBrPSYgjI4C&pg=PT58&lpg=PT58&dq=oco-wars+ibm&source=bl&ots=yBMaklHV-x&sig=P8_h7-FSQOnbM0-TQO0OzK_UwaM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBWoVChMIuqDXn5nZyAIVxDqICh1zSAWR#v=onepage&q=oco-wars%20ibm&f=false

part of JES2 folklore is that they did all their source maintenance
using vm370/cms (originally cp67/cms) multi-level update infrastructure
...  and then had to go thru conversion to the MVS-based system for
release. misc. past posts mentioning HASP, JES2, NJE, etc
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#hasp

misc. past posts mentioning OCO-wars
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2005u.html#57 IPCS Standard Print Service
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006n.html#34 Not Your Dad's Mainframe: Little Iron
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#14 SEQUENCE NUMBERS
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007k.html#15 Data Areas Manuals to be dropped
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#15 Patents, Copyrights, Profits, Flex and Hercules
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#6 Open z/Architecture or Not
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#8 Open z/Architecture or Not
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#42 VM/370 Release 6 Waterloo tape (CIA MODS)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#45 dynamic allocation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#72 Linux versioning file system
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#0 Timeline: The evolution of online communities
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#20 If you don't have access to a mainframe
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#48 Timeline: 40 Years Of Unix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#7 The 50th Anniversary of the Legendary IBM 1401
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#49 "Portable" data centers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010j.html#17 Personal use z/OS machines was Re: Multiprise 3k for personal Use?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010j.html#19 Personal use z/OS machines was Re: Multiprise 3k for personal Use?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010j.html#20 Personal use z/OS machines was Re: Multiprise 3k for personal Use?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010j.html#22 Personal use z/OS machines was Re: Multiprise 3k for personal Use?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#30 Idiotic programming style edicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#65 Idiotic programming style edicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#67 Idiotic programming style edicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#1 Honoree pedigrees
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#15 Age
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#30 Philosophy: curiousity question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011b.html#87 The first personal computer (PC)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011c.html#56 The real cost of outsourcing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#75 pdp8 to PC- have we lost our way?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011i.html#7 Do you remember back to June 23, 1969 when IBM unbundled
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011i.html#17 Got to remembering... the really old geeks (like me) cut their teeth on Unit Record
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011o.html#33 Data Areas?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#58 An approach to Dump formatting of Control Blocks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#20 Operating System, what is it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#30 Can anybody give me a clear idea about Cloud Computing in MAINFRAME ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#31 How smart do you need to be to be really good with Assembler?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#79 Slackware
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012k.html#62 Any cool anecdotes IBM 40yrs of VM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#63 Is it possible to hack mainframe system??
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#26 New HD
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013l.html#66 model numbers; was re: World's worst programming environment?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#55 'Free Unix!': The world-changing proclamation made 30 years ago today
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#45 the nonsuckage of source, was MS-DOS, was Re: 'Free Unix!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014.html#19 the suckage of MS-DOS, was Re: 'Free Unix!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#5 "F[R]eebie" software
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#35 BBC News - Microsoft fixes '19-year-old' bug with emergency patch
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015.html#84 a bit of hope? What was old is new again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015.html#85 a bit of hope? What was old is new again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#19 What were the complaints of binary code programmers that not accept Assembly?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#14 3033 & 3081 question
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#48 Western Union envisioned internet functionality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#59 Western Union envisioned internet functionality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#32 (External):Re: IBM

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Thread

high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-20 17:47 -0400
  Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-21 01:09 +0000
    Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-21 14:44 -0500
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:15 -0700
  Re: high level language idea davidmylastname@acm.org (David Griffith) - 2015-10-21 01:16 +0000
    Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:26 -0400
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 12:13 -0700
        Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 15:23 -0400
  Re: high level language idea bert <bert.hutchings@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-21 03:53 -0700
    Re: high level language idea rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2015-10-21 13:47 +0000
      Re: high level language idea "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:58 +0100
        Re: high level language idea Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-10-21 10:34 -0400
        Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-21 16:43 +0000
      Re: high level language idea rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2015-10-21 14:46 +0000
    Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:29 -0400
      Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-10-21 14:19 -0500
        Re: high level language idea Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-10-21 15:24 -0400
          Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-10-22 14:13 -0500
            Re: high level language idea "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 09:55 -0500
              Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-23 11:42 -0400
                Re: high level language idea "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 11:48 -0500
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-23 10:47 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-24 21:24 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-24 21:14 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-25 11:31 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-25 18:13 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-23 11:20 -0700
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-23 11:45 -0700
              Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-24 21:11 -0500
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 07:40 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-27 08:30 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-27 09:11 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 12:52 -0400
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 10:22 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 14:37 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-27 19:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 17:46 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 01:22 +0000
                Re: high level language idea jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-28 12:58 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-28 13:59 +0000
                Re: high level language idea jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-29 13:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-29 14:28 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 05:06 +1100
                Re: high level language idea pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-29 19:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 14:21 -0600
                Re: high level language idea pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-29 19:50 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 07:33 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 16:58 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 10:10 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 20:08 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 13:58 -0700
                Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-27 15:53 -0500
                Re: high level language idea - TTF Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 17:11 -0400
                Re: high level language idea - TTF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-28 13:24 +0000
                Re: high level language idea - TTF hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 07:37 -0700
                Re: high level language idea - TTF Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 16:58 +0000
                Re: high level language idea - TTF Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-28 15:10 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 01:22 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-28 08:04 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 11:34 -0400
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 10:14 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 14:30 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-27 19:29 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 16:57 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-27 21:50 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 17:58 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-28 09:04 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-28 09:42 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-10-28 14:55 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-10-28 15:02 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-28 19:15 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-28 13:25 -0600
                Re: high level language idea Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-28 17:54 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-28 19:19 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 21:09 +0000
                Re: high level language idea scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-28 13:36 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-28 17:54 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 20:08 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-28 17:54 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-13 16:05 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-13 17:20 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-11-15 08:14 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-27 19:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 18:00 -0700
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 12:21 -0700
        Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 15:25 -0400
        Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 17:14 -0400
          Re: high level language idea jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-22 12:51 +0000
        Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-21 17:56 -0400
      Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-21 19:43 +0000
        Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:09 -0700
          Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-22 02:52 +0000
          Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-23 16:04 -0500
    Re: high level language idea Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-28 20:19 -0400
  Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 07:35 -0700
    Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-21 19:43 +0000
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:00 -0700
        Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-21 13:35 -0700
          Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:50 -0700
            Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-21 17:56 -0400
              Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-22 07:22 -0700
                Re: high level language idea John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-10-24 00:42 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-24 20:26 -0700
                Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-25 18:36 -0500
            Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-21 15:31 -0700
            Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-20 17:17 -0500
        Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-20 17:00 -0500
          Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-20 22:20 +0000
            Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-21 08:35 -0500
      Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-23 16:00 -0500
        Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-23 21:07 +0000
        Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-20 17:31 -0500
          Re: high level language idea Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-11-25 11:28 -0800
            Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-12-22 14:00 -0500
              Re: high level language idea Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-12-22 11:43 -0800

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