Re: Is it possible C is the security problem?

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Is it possible C is the security problem?
Date	2015-11-20 11:16 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87y4dsrkd7.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(16 earlier) <76925f7b-9932-4086-b7ff-aeed34fc5ccd@googlegroups.com> <8737w2un35.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <373faa1b-005d-40ae-baee-1b7f1f9021a7@googlegroups.com> <87egflsb52.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <c112b5e5-f04e-4ac0-961e-cff1a45ea84a@googlegroups.com>

Show all headers | View raw

Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:

> On Friday, November 20, 2015 at 1:38:52 AM UTC, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:
>> 
>> > On Thursday, November 19, 2015 at 1:37:52 PM UTC, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> >> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:
>> >> 
>> >> > On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 9:35:19 PM UTC, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> >> >> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> > By that, I mean that all the teams have several points
>> >> >> > (it only works halfway through the league). As they play
>> >> >> > games, obviously a team can gain three points, or one point,
>> >> >> > or no points, and can overtake rivals.
>> >> >> > But it's very unlikely that a team will move more than one
>> >> >> > or two places as the result of any one match.
>> >> >> > You get that sort of dataset quite a bit in real life.
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> Why not use insertion sort?  Bubble sort is not the only simple
>> >> >> algorithm to be good on partially sorted data, and I don't 
>> >> >> think it is ever the best.  Do you think otherwise?  If so, 
>> >> >> can you show some data?
>> >> >> 
>> >> > Bubble sort can terminate after a few passes if the data
>> >> > still isn't sorted.
>> >> 
>> >> Insertion sort performs better by all the simple measures: it's better
>> >> on array reads, on array writes and on compares.  It's better (or no
>> >> worse) than bubble sort in every case I've tested, and that includes
>> >> exhaustive testing of all permutations of small data sets.  These are
>> >> simple measures for sure; that's why I asked why you if you had data to
>> >> back up your advocacy for bubble sort -- it was possible you had better
>> >> data than I do.
>> >> 
>> >> > So if we've got a football league type
>> >> > dataset, with occasional shuffling catastrophes, we can
>> >> > resort to quicksort if our assumption that the data is
>> >> > nearly sorted is wrong.
>> >> > I haven't done any tests however.
>> >> 
>> >> So why are repeating this old canard?  Bad ideas won't die if everyone
>> >> just keeps repeating them.  On the other hand, I'd be very happy to find
>> >> a data set that makes bubble sort look like a good choice (I like to
>> >> learn new things), I just haven't ever found one.
>> >> 
>> >
>> > Here we go
>> <snip code>
>> 
>> > bubblesort    295985 comps 139240 swaps
>> > insertionsort 289045 comps 132878 swaps
>> > bubblesort    19998 comps 42 swaps
>> > insertionsort 10039 comps 40 swaps
>> > quicksort 126257 comps
>> 
>> Is this supposed to be data in support of your advice to use bubble
>> sort?  I don't see how it can be.
>> 
>> [By the way, insertion sort is better than this because the version that
>> uses swaps sometimes does the same amount of data moving as bubble sort.
>> (It's still better, mind you!)  Optimised implementations don't do
>> swaps.  An out of order element is "picked up", the inner loop runs
>> shifting (rather than swapping) the data as it goes, and the picked-up
>> element is put into the right place.]
>> 
>> > The trick is to know when to terminate the insertion sort, otherwise
>> > of course it performs catastrophically on the random order data.
>> > But bubble sort loses out because of the extra pass, even when it 
>> > can sort the data in one pass.
>> 
>> So why do you advise using it?
>> 
> I hadn't considered the insertion sort termination trick. robert... 
> suggested it, and of course it makes sense.

Insertion sort is better than bubble sort without any added tricks.  How
does that explain your advice?

<snip>
> Now less consider how we can make those termination conditions even
> better.

One of them can be improved by deleting it, along with the bubble sort
routine it's part of.  Or are you *still* advocating its use is some
cases?  If so I *still* want to know what cases those are.

-- 
Ben.

Thread

Is it possible C is the security problem? G G <gdotone@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 06:31 -0800
  Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-03 14:57 +0000
    Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-03 15:04 +0000
    Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? G G <gdotone@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 07:11 -0800
      Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-03 15:25 +0000
        Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-03 20:13 +0000
          Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-03 15:18 -0500
          Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-03 20:34 +0000
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-03 22:47 +0000
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Udyant Wig <udyantw@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 15:36 +0530
              Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-04 10:34 +0000
          Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-03 15:18 -0800
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-03 17:42 -0800
          Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-11-03 15:32 -0800
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-03 23:57 +0000
              Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Geoff <geoff@invalid.invalid> - 2015-11-03 21:13 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-04 07:22 +0000
              Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-04 11:32 +0100
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-04 10:54 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-04 13:38 +0100
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-07 08:27 +0000
              Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-05 09:26 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-05 10:03 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-11-05 08:53 -0500
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-06 10:04 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Reinhardt Behm <rbehm@hushmail.com> - 2015-11-05 21:06 +0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-05 11:14 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-05 11:44 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-07 02:43 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-07 17:30 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-10 16:35 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-10 11:52 -0500
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-11 00:48 -0600
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-17 21:55 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-17 19:14 -0600
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-18 03:40 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-17 23:01 -0600
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-18 09:00 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-18 09:09 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-18 15:35 -0600
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-18 21:35 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-18 20:38 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-19 05:40 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-18 22:55 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-19 19:56 +1300
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-18 23:40 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-19 21:05 +1300
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-19 06:40 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 11:37 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-11-19 12:09 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-19 12:52 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-20 12:20 +1300
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-19 15:34 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-22 16:43 +1300
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-21 21:28 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-22 20:51 +1300
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-22 07:26 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-22 09:42 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-22 09:59 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-23 07:08 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-23 11:57 +1300
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-22 16:06 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-23 13:26 +1300
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-19 09:09 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-20 02:29 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-20 12:33 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-20 09:26 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-19 13:37 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-19 14:07 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-20 01:38 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-19 18:43 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-20 12:09 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-20 01:48 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-20 11:16 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-20 05:04 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-20 18:18 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-20 11:55 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-21 00:27 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-20 18:57 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-20 19:50 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-20 20:06 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-20 20:46 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-20 20:56 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-21 04:58 -0600
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-21 04:59 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-21 13:26 -0600
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-21 14:38 -0500
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-21 06:49 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-20 22:56 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-21 04:36 -0600
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-21 06:44 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-21 15:59 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-21 18:33 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-21 19:19 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-21 13:33 -0600
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-22 14:42 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-22 14:17 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-20 14:51 +1300
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-19 08:06 -0600
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-18 15:40 -0600
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-20 13:57 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-21 06:56 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-23 03:16 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-23 22:28 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-23 21:11 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-24 10:29 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-25 02:38 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-27 13:54 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-10 10:23 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-10 11:21 -0800
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2015-11-04 00:58 +0100
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-11-03 18:26 -0600
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-11-04 02:06 +0000
          Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-04 14:12 +1300
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-04 07:02 +0000
              Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-11-04 20:42 +1300
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-04 08:06 +0000
          Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-04 11:25 +0100
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-04 11:49 +0000
              Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-04 13:46 +0100
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-17 21:58 +0000
              Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-17 23:37 +0100
        Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-12-06 07:55 -0500
          Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-12-06 14:23 -0600
    Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-03 15:59 +0000
      Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-03 16:55 +0000
    Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? see.my.homepage@gmail.com - 2015-11-04 02:29 -0800
      Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-04 10:48 +0000
        Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? see.my.homepage@gmail.com - 2015-11-04 14:11 -0800
          Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-05 00:39 +0000
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-05 01:15 +0000
              Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-05 02:02 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-04 18:31 -0800
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-11-05 12:38 +0000
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-04 18:24 -0800
              Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-11-04 19:37 -0800
              Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-05 13:24 +0100
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-05 06:47 -0800
            Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? see.my.homepage@gmail.com - 2015-11-05 00:35 -0800
              Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-11-05 09:55 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? see.my.homepage@gmail.com - 2015-11-05 05:02 -0800
              Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-06 10:18 +0000
                Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? see.my.homepage@gmail.com - 2015-11-06 05:57 -0800
      Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-11-04 08:32 -0500
  Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-03 15:01 +0000
    Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-11-03 15:10 +0000
  Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-03 11:02 -0500
    Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-03 18:13 +0000
      Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2015-11-03 15:16 -0500
        Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2015-11-04 09:38 +0000
      Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-11-04 11:38 +0100
  Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-11-03 11:58 -0500
  Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-03 09:13 -0800
    Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-11-03 18:08 +0000
      Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Nobody <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2015-11-04 04:49 +0000
        Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-11-04 02:22 -0800
        Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-11-04 13:28 +0000
        Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-04 08:39 -0800
  Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2015-11-03 10:45 -0800
    Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? supercat@casperkitty.com - 2015-11-03 11:05 -0800
  Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2015-11-03 18:09 -0600
  Is it possible C is the security problem? Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2015-11-04 01:15 -0800
    Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-11-04 13:31 +0000
  Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? G G <gdotone@gmail.com> - 2015-11-18 10:55 -0800
    Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-11-18 14:05 -0500
      Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? "D. Aaron Sawyer" <aaron@110.net> - 2015-11-18 19:47 -0500
    Re: Is it possible C is the security problem? raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-11-20 10:43 +0000

csiph-web