Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth
Date	2015-03-22 13:37 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87pp80ahug.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <bf5f7457-17dc-46be-8262-c64d40181af3@googlegroups.com> <87619uav5r.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <9e9efbe7-b0c8-45a3-9d0a-3dea3651759e@googlegroups.com> <871tkhbvex.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <54f48f02-c218-40c2-a61e-5c5d8f6097db@googlegroups.com>

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franck.bensusan@gmail.com writes:
> I think Forth mecanisms are really great and could also apply to
> desktop/server programming.

Which mechanisms are those and what is their attraction?  Forth always
seemed to me about minimizing abstraction and shifting responsibilities
to the user that most languages keep with the compiler.  That permits
implementation on very limited hardware and allows users (typically
electrical engineers or physicists, i.e. very technical people but not
really software specialists) to completely understand and modify the
system.

Once you've got desktop/server-level hardware resources and the
willingness to implement complicated features like lexical closures and
a GC, you've lost the user benefit of implementation simplicity, and
added enough features to have lost the spirit of Forth minimalism, what
is really left?  Are the exposed data stack and stream-level
metaprogramming really that attractive?  I think of them as examples of
minimalistically doing things that more resource-hungry languages do
differently for good reasons.

> I don't think a GC will be added to ANS Forth, because it would be 
> disqualified too (see your arguments), and I don't think an extention 
> could give a fast, optimized GC. 

It's an interesting of ANS Forth that it turns out to even be possible
to add a GC as a user extension.  Would it be possible to do something
like that in Oforth, if Oforth didn't already have a GC?

> There are not many choices left if you want a higher level Forth to be
> used on desktop/server targets...

Have you tried Factor?  How is Oforth different if you don't mind my
asking?  I looked at Factor briefly but haven't actually run it.

Thread

8 queens problem in Oforth "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-19 07:53 +0000
  Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-19 08:58 -0700
    Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2015-03-20 08:16 -0400
      Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-03-21 10:11 +0000
        Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-03-21 03:45 -0700
          Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 14:14 -0700
            Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-03-21 14:28 -0700
              Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 14:38 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-03-21 15:15 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-21 18:23 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-03-22 03:03 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-22 14:04 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-03-22 16:34 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-22 21:49 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-03-23 00:05 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-23 21:43 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-03-24 04:13 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-03-23 00:17 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-21 19:47 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth franck.bensusan@gmail.com - 2015-03-22 08:41 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 13:37 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-22 18:13 +0100
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 13:55 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-22 21:08 +0000
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 14:39 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 14:50 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-22 22:58 +0100
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 15:13 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-23 01:03 +0100
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 17:33 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-23 02:37 +0100
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-22 20:53 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 21:11 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-03-23 11:34 +0000
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-23 19:31 +0000
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 15:56 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-24 00:38 +0100
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 19:08 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-30 05:02 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-30 05:08 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-30 15:36 +0100
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-23 16:46 +0100
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 15:32 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-23 23:48 +0100
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 16:14 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-22 17:54 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-03-22 23:09 +0000
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-03-22 22:11 +0100
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-22 14:48 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-22 15:11 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-03-23 11:29 +0000
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-03-23 12:20 +0000
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-03-22 14:21 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-03-22 22:30 +0100
            Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-03-23 14:45 +0000
              Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-23 14:53 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-03-24 09:16 -1000
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-24 12:40 -0700
                Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-03-30 12:24 +0000
          Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-03-21 22:27 +0100
  Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-19 20:31 +0000
  Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-19 20:35 +0000
  Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-21 17:31 +0000
    Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-21 20:50 +0000
    Re: 8 queens problem in Oforth "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-21 21:52 +0000

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