Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.c > #60582

Re: SAFEcode

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: SAFEcode
Date 2015-04-20 22:43 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87lhhm5v88.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <0734af4b-4b6e-44b5-9f8f-9fba8315e833@googlegroups.com> <mh291a$b2$1@dont-email.me> <bb060ce1-d2c3-4479-9297-78234efe5489@googlegroups.com> <871tjf6ovf.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <72593655-4999-4703-9bc9-ef7f0c0f9e78@googlegroups.com>

Show all headers | View raw

Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:

> On Monday, April 20, 2015 at 12:06:04 PM UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> writes:
>> <snip>
>> > Ok, so that's our working hypothesis. We have an enemy. Now if he
>> > could send us infinite bytes there would be no point - he can impose
>> > infinite costs on us. So there must be some upper limit to the
>> > amount of ammunition he can get his hands on.
>> 
>> This is not the right way to think about algorithms.  Infinite data is
>> always ruled out -- there is simply no point in considering it -- but
>> saying that the input is finite without bounding it is pretty much the
>> same thing.  We can't actually incur infinite costs, but the costs are
>> unbounded, and I am not aware of any situation where that distinction
>> matters.  When considering the worst case, as you seem to be here,
>> unbounded input will always force the analysis to consider only the
>> asymptotic behaviour.  You might as well talk of infinite input because
>> how bad the cost gets will be determined by a limit "an n goes to oo" --
>> saying that n can't get there is both obvious and immaterial.
>> 
> I'm a bit out of my depth here, but I think that if our probability
> density function
> is Cantor dust, then there is no answer, and the snipers are
> right. Cantor dust means

... yes I know what it means.  It has measure zero.  What's more, it's
not a function.  What on earth do you mean by calling such a set a PDF?

<snip>
> But we can easily have a function which tends to zero at infinity, but never
> has a absolute upper bound. Exponential decay is the obvious one.
> That's common.

Of course.  So what?

>> > So if we grow a buffer, then he can send of messages of one or two
>> > bytes (depending on whether we allocate the one) and he imposes a
>> > cost of N * growth factor on us. But he won't do that, he'll
>> > send us the largest message he can, that is exactly one byte over
>> > the maximum we can allocate.
>> 
>> This is new information.  There is, it seems, a maximum we can allocate.
>> That did not seem to feature before.  What is the cost of an allocation
>> that we can't make?
>> 
> Sorry, I nodded there.
>
> What I mean is that if he's got 10,005 bytes, and we're growing by a factor of
> ten, we'll make an allocation of 10,000 bytes, he'll then send us an extra byte,
> and we'll make the allocation up to 100,000 bytes.
> He'll always play this game with us.

You can't mean this -- the process you describe is not even finite.  Try
to take time out the specification: there is some data and a restricted
way in which is is processed.  For example, you could say that it's a
stream, processed one byte at a time, with messages (if indeed you
permit more the one) delimited in some way.  That's the usual model for
this sort of problem.  Think reading and allocating storage for the
lines in a file.

>> I think you should formalise the model a lot more.  Then there might be
>> some hope of mutual understanding.
>> 
> The point is that we have a real world specification, based on real
> data.

Nonsense.  You've given no specification and given no data.  If you do
in fact have either (or both), please give them: a real world
specification that a programmer could actually implement, and some real
data that you want answers for.

I thought you were going to do that -- actually run some experiments.
You'll need real data for that, and precisely defined processing pseudo
code.  You'll get actual numbers which will have the merit of being
unassailable.  I don't think they will be interesting or significant,
but they will be unassailable data points.

> Once you say "messages with a linear distribution between 1 and 1000
> bytes" then you've got a different type of problem.

But one I note you expressly asked me to solve for you (some time ago
now).  Why did you do that if it's not the problem you are interested
in?

Finally, why did you not answer any of my questions?  What is your
purpose here if not to be understood?  I asked what I thought were
reasonably clear questions about what you mean by various terms and
phrases but... nothing.

-- 
Ben.

Back to comp.lang.c | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

Re: SAFEcode Robbie Hatley <see.my.sig@for.my.address> - 2015-04-14 00:14 -0700
  Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 10:33 +0200
    Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 02:01 -0700
      Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-14 10:23 +0100
      Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 11:49 +0200
        Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 04:31 -0700
          Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 14:54 +0200
            Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 06:39 -0700
              Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 16:10 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 08:11 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-14 23:58 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 01:25 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 11:11 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 02:35 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 13:52 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 06:04 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-15 08:08 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 08:57 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 18:24 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 09:45 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-15 19:09 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 22:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-16 08:23 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 10:44 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-16 11:22 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 15:33 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Steve Thompson <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2015-04-16 04:38 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-16 14:12 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 09:28 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 09:33 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 02:08 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 09:43 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 08:04 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 17:08 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-17 08:07 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-15 12:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 22:56 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 10:29 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 04:46 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 13:08 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 08:42 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-16 16:47 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-16 16:53 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 10:52 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-16 22:11 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 10:22 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 02:17 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-17 05:56 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 04:37 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-17 10:04 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 08:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-17 20:52 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 13:16 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-18 04:22 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 14:08 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-18 06:00 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-18 21:42 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-18 17:47 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 00:11 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 12:52 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-19 09:10 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 07:21 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-19 12:54 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 11:18 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-20 09:58 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 08:09 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-20 13:06 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-19 07:32 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 09:03 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-19 16:30 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-19 12:58 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 05:37 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-18 08:00 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-18 19:28 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-18 09:37 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-19 11:37 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-19 09:56 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-22 15:49 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 18:13 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-28 12:46 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-20 16:50 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-17 10:31 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-17 21:09 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-17 19:01 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-18 15:18 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-18 09:00 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-18 21:52 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 00:02 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-04-19 00:40 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 03:52 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-04-21 09:02 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 12:58 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 07:25 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-19 15:51 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-19 23:22 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 16:26 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 00:48 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 09:15 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 00:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 10:33 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 01:55 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 11:28 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 02:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 12:35 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 03:58 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 13:37 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 06:04 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 15:37 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 06:52 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 16:23 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 07:32 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 22:42 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 21:56 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 09:21 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 01:00 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 10:37 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 01:59 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 12:21 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 03:45 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 10:05 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 12:14 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 08:18 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 08:51 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 09:44 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 01:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 03:45 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 02:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 04:29 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 03:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 10:30 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 09:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 13:03 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 11:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 15:25 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 21:49 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 16:17 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 22:33 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 16:56 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-23 09:24 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 02:25 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2015-04-23 08:24 -0400
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 06:18 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.lists@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-23 14:47 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 07:16 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-23 17:20 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 08:44 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:14 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-25 04:04 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 12:22 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-25 10:53 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-23 16:48 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-24 12:49 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.lists@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-23 20:40 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 13:03 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-23 23:49 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 01:07 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.lists@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-24 11:51 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 04:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-24 13:20 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 06:48 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:16 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-24 15:48 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 10:05 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-24 22:59 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-26 00:16 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-24 04:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-24 22:59 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-23 08:17 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 16:49 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 17:01 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-04-22 17:51 -0400
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-22 17:35 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 17:45 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-23 09:29 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-23 08:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-23 08:55 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-23 21:11 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 06:23 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 13:08 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 20:17 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 12:43 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-23 11:52 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-23 13:53 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-25 10:18 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Morris Dovey <mrdovey@iedu.com> - 2015-04-25 21:37 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-20 12:05 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 04:28 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 04:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-20 12:40 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 14:11 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 06:31 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 16:31 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode jadill33@gmail.com - 2015-04-20 09:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-20 22:52 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode asetofsymbols@gmail.com - 2015-04-20 11:10 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-20 22:43 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-20 22:59 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 09:27 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 15:12 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 07:31 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-21 16:43 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 08:01 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-04-21 22:29 +0000
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-21 11:09 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 10:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 10:22 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 16:51 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 02:52 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-21 14:44 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 16:58 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 01:11 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-21 17:31 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 10:09 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 10:50 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-22 11:12 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 11:37 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 05:54 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 15:31 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 06:48 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 16:29 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 16:13 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 08:22 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 16:25 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 10:35 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 13:24 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-23 01:18 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-23 06:11 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-23 09:36 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 08:38 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 13:04 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 09:52 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 16:23 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 10:28 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 08:16 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 13:53 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-22 12:45 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-22 16:44 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 22:58 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 09:53 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-21 10:15 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-21 13:57 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 23:01 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 23:46 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 01:49 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 08:32 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-22 10:02 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 12:06 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 20:18 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 12:30 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-21 21:30 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-21 13:39 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-21 20:21 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-22 10:24 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-22 09:46 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode gwowen <gwowen@gmail.com> - 2015-04-22 02:57 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-22 08:42 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-19 16:19 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-19 09:08 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-16 08:55 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-16 11:03 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-16 11:35 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 10:28 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-17 09:51 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-04-20 11:28 +0300
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-17 10:32 +0200
              Re: SAFEcode Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-04-14 15:24 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 08:03 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-14 18:48 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 12:43 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-14 21:52 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 13:16 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-14 21:39 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-15 01:20 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-15 01:29 +0100
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 01:32 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-15 08:17 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 09:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-15 18:33 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-15 10:02 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-15 20:55 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-04-15 19:27 -0500
                Re: SAFEcode Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-04-20 11:53 +0300
                Re: SAFEcode Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-04-16 14:51 +1200
                Re: SAFEcode Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2015-04-17 02:13 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-04-15 08:14 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-04-14 21:02 +0100
              Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-14 08:33 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 08:54 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-14 11:43 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 12:41 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-14 13:08 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2015-04-14 14:02 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-04-14 15:29 -0700
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 10:03 +0200
                Re: SAFEcode David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-04-15 10:02 +0200
      Re: SAFEcode Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2015-04-20 11:13 +0300
  Re: SAFEcode Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-04-14 13:03 +0100

csiph-web