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Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?)

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Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> writes:

> Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> writes:
>
> [..pruning mercilessly..]
>
>> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> writes:
>
> [.. concerning C being Turing complete ..]
>
>> I think this is going to get messy because I contend that C
>> (certainly freestanding C) already excludes an infinite number of
>> computable functions because it's model is everywhere bounded.
>> (Yes, I know we might want to consider IO to be essentially
>> unbounded.)
>>
>> But that's a side issue!
>
> Okay, I will ignore that question.
>
>> I meant only that the kind of processing the example indulged in
>> could be deemed invalid without affecting C's Turing completeness.
>> You considered the program "large" in that it generated a huge
>> post-processing input.  C could have declared such "large" programs
>> to be invalid.
>
> What I think you're saying here is C could disallow large
> programs when the largeness comes mostly from macro expansion
> (and so we don't need to consider the question of the language
> being Turing complete).  I think that's right, although I'm not
> sure if such a determination could be done cheaply enough;  the
> cost of deciding when the limit is exceeded might be too high
> to be practical.  Also I'm not sure how to define the property
> in a precise way;  no doubt it could be done, but I suspect
> making the definition precise would give a result that is
> complicated and hard to understand.  (But I'm not asking for a
> concrete proposal.)
>
> If you're saying something else then I don't know what it is.
>
>
>>> Incidentally, the processing time needed is irrelevant.  The
>>> compiler will run out of memory long before it runs out of CPU
>>> cycles.
>>
>> Yes.  "Compile-time costs" was supposed to mean costs (in terms
>> of resources) incurred at compile time.
>
> Oh, but this matters.  The amount of memory required to see if
> the macro-processing-expansion limit is exceeded (even when it is
> not) might be too large for a determination to be made.  Oops!
>
> Have we made any progress towards understanding each other?  I
> hope we have. :)

I'm not sure.  I don't think you've said anything that I've not
understood.

-- 
Ben.

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Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) KP2 KP2 <jungletrain@outlook.com> - 2022-12-10 13:06 -0800
  Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-12-10 20:57 -0600
    Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-12-10 22:57 -0600
    Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2022-12-11 20:31 +0000
      Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Robert Latest <boblatest@yahoo.com> - 2022-12-12 14:39 +0000
        Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2022-12-13 12:15 +0000
        Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-12-13 16:23 +0000
      Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-26 05:20 -0800
        Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-12-26 14:37 +0000
          Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-26 10:30 -0800
            Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-12-27 16:45 +0000
              Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-27 19:38 -0800
                Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2022-12-29 02:09 +0000
                Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2022-12-29 19:56 -0800
  Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2022-12-11 20:12 +0000
    Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-12-12 14:33 -0600
      Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-12 21:12 +0000
        Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-12-12 16:09 -0800
  Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Jack Lemmon <invalid@invalid.net> - 2022-12-12 20:30 +0000
    Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-12-12 15:20 -0600
    Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2022-12-12 21:28 +0000
      Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-12 22:39 +0000
        Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2022-12-12 22:49 +0000
          Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) "minf...@arcor.de" <minforth@arcor.de> - 2022-12-31 04:01 -0800
        Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2022-12-12 15:56 -0800
          Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-12-13 14:55 +0000
            Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-12-13 16:26 +0100
        Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-12-13 14:50 +0100
        Re: Limitation of MS-DOS C compiler? (was Re: Should I convert FORTRAN code to C?) Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2022-12-13 18:56 +0300

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