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Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE

From Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE
Date 2016-09-15 12:43 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87d1k5c5jb.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <MPG.3241e2b67520923d989688@news.virginmedia.com> <2016Sep13.184543@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <MPG.32435aac6aaa884298968b@news.virginmedia.com> <2016Sep14.171624@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <MPG.3244a692dc7ba36f98968c@news.virginmedia.com>

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jim <anon@example.com> writes:
> The sense I am getting is the only thing people here are interested in
> is tiny little programs they can play with in emacs.  That's fine if
> thats all you're interested in.

Forth was developed for measurement and control applications on machines
with few resources, and while it can do other things, imho that's what
it's best at.


>What Im looking for is a serious toolchain to do some serious large
>scale speculative work with -I can't even use what I've discovered in
>the forth world for the proof of concept work I need to do.
> It's looking like I'm going to have to use plain C

What kinds of programs are you thinking about?  For speculative and
exploratory programming I usually find it better to use higher level or
scripting languages (Python is nice for that).  C and Forth are for when
you need higher efficiency and resource control.

> I've looked around but my conclusion is: Forth is stuck in 1980 and
> far too small and introverted to deal with. Nobody is using it because
> nobody has made it usable. Chicken and egg.

I personally don't find the toolchain to be an issue.  Forth with a much
fancier toolchain would still be Forth, requiring its usual careful and
painstaking approach to programming.  By comparison, with Python, I can
throw code at the screen intuitively, and get something that runs slowly
but works.  That's usually enough to test the idea, and often enough to
be usable directly if the problem requirements are not too large.  If I
need it to run fast, this may indicate poor taste on my part, but these
days I generally prefer C++ to C.

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native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-08 11:46 +0100
  Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE Andreas Wagner <andreas.wagner@lowfatcomputing.org> - 2016-09-08 07:29 -0700
  Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-09 23:48 -0700
    Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-10 11:40 +0100
      Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-09-10 07:48 -0700
        Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE mhx@iae.nl - 2016-09-10 09:59 -0700
          Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE foxaudioresearch@gmail.com - 2016-09-10 12:27 -0700
            Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-11 15:01 +0100
              Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-09-11 08:02 -0700
              Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-11 19:07 -0700
          Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-10 22:13 +0200
          Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-11 14:52 +0100
          Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-12 09:10 +0000
            Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-12 13:49 +0200
        Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-09-12 13:55 +0000
          Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-13 11:18 +0100
            Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 13:26 +0300
            Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE Coos Haak <htrofhc@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 13:13 +0200
              Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-09-13 05:46 -0700
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-14 14:03 +0100
              Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-13 10:30 -0700
            Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-13 16:45 +0000
              Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-14 14:03 +0100
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-09-14 15:16 +0000
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-15 13:38 +0100
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2016-09-15 21:39 +0200
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-16 11:54 +0100
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-09-16 09:49 -0500
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-16 15:34 -0700
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-15 12:43 -0700
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-16 12:18 +0100
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2016-09-16 02:37 -0700
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-16 14:45 +0100
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-09-14 10:30 -0700
                Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-14 15:42 -0700
      Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-09-10 19:22 -0700
  Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE missycurl@gmail.com - 2016-09-11 06:02 -0700
    Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE missycurl@gmail.com - 2016-09-11 06:08 -0700
      Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-11 14:56 +0100
        Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE missycurl@gmail.com - 2016-09-11 12:59 -0700
  Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-09-13 23:10 +0100
    Re: native compiling embedable Forth with decent IDE jim <anon@example.com> - 2016-09-14 14:03 +0100

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