Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?"

From	Richard <rgrdev_@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?"
Date	2014-04-10 09:08 +0100
Organization	http://www.ieee.org/
Message-ID	<878urdy5c2.fsf@gmail.com> (permalink)
References	(13 earlier) <TJ_0v.147431$Bj3.3238@fx09.am4> <li24jo$22j$1@dont-email.me> <lnha63avgt.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <li2tqd$aem$1@dont-email.me> <ln4n22bkec.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>

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Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> writes:

> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>> On 09/04/14 08:05, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>>> On 09/04/14 00:27, BartC wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>>> Instead of a simple, logical extension to allow such a declaration,
>>>>> where it will be completely obvious what it is and what it can do,
>>>>> you instead propose using a *variable* for the purpose, which so many
>>>>> issues associated with it that I hardly know where to start! But I
>>>>> will have a go:
>>>>
>>>> A "const" is not a variable - it is a constant object.  So instead of 
>>>> introducing some sort of new type of constant to the language, I would 
>>>> rather take the existing const concept and extend it slightly (as it is 
>>>> in C++) to cover the remaining needs for constants.  That is far 
>>>> simpler, clearer and easier than having a new type of constant - and it 
>>>> already exists in C++.
>>> 
>>> You're conflating "const" and "constant" in a context where the
>>> distinction is extremely relevant.
>>
>> Perhaps - I certainly agree that we must be as clear as possible here.
>
> [...]
>
>>> It's not entirely clear what the word "variable" should mean in C.  The
>>> standard doesn't use the term; instead it uses "object".  Is a
>>> const-qualified object a "variable"?  You could probably get three
>>> different answers from three different people here; mine is that I avoid
>>> using the word "variable" when there's any chance of confusion.
>>
>> I view "variable" to mean something that can legally be changed after
>> its creation and initialisation.


>
> That's not an unreasonable definition -- but it's still not entirely
> unambiguous.  Someone might refer to a const-qualified object as a
> "variable".  And a member of a non-const struct object is an object that
> can be modified, but is it a variable or just part of one?  What about
> an array element?  What about an object allocated by malloc()?
>
> The words "const", "constant", and "object", have well-defined meanings
> in C.  "Variable" doesn't.  I suggest just avoiding that word, at least
> in this discussion.

Without the application of "const" in any shape or form it has a very
well defined meaning. The clue is in what "variable" means and in
addition to that real humans are capable of understanding what someone
means when they say "a constant int" for example.

-- 
"Avoid hyperbole at all costs, its the most destructive argument on
the planet" - Mark McIntyre in comp.lang.c

Thread

Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" partremmaps@gmail.com - 2014-04-05 13:07 -0700
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-05 13:55 -0700
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-05 14:14 -0700
    Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-06 22:18 +0200
      Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-06 13:28 -0700
      Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-06 16:35 -0400
      Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 08:55 +1200
        Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-06 23:30 +0200
          Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 10:12 +1200
          Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-06 18:22 -0400
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-05 14:30 -0700
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-05 22:39 +0100
    Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-06 22:27 +0200
      Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 08:52 +1200
      Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-06 23:20 +0100
        Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 02:17 +0200
          Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-06 19:00 -0700
            Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-07 04:44 +0000
              Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 10:15 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-07 18:32 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-07 18:47 +0000
              Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Alain Ketterlin <alain@dpt-info.u-strasbg.fr> - 2014-04-07 11:39 +0200
            Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 08:58 +0200
              Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 19:34 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 09:41 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 21:45 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 11:03 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 12:54 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 13:48 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 15:27 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-07 23:00 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 11:31 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2014-04-07 07:24 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 15:02 +0200
          Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 10:19 +0100
            Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 12:43 +0200
              Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 13:27 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 15:16 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 14:43 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 16:44 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 16:52 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-07 12:53 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-07 12:59 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 18:12 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Richard <rgrdev_@gmail.com> - 2014-04-07 18:27 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-08 23:22 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-08 18:44 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-09 00:22 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-08 09:39 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-08 23:27 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-09 10:52 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-09 00:24 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-09 11:32 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 08:58 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-08 19:54 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-09 00:41 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-08 23:05 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-04-08 18:24 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-08 19:39 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-08 22:41 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 09:16 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-09 07:27 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 15:32 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-09 08:32 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-10 11:03 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 07:27 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-10 14:02 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-10 08:34 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-10 16:36 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 12:58 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-09 11:36 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-09 18:36 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-04-09 14:11 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-10 13:55 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 02:35 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-08 23:05 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 09:45 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-09 08:19 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Richard <rgrdev_@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 09:08 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-10 02:57 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Richard <rgrdev_@gmail.com> - 2014-04-10 11:50 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Seungbeom Kim <musiphil@bawi.org> - 2014-04-10 11:37 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 14:52 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-10 18:53 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-10 19:36 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 15:59 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-10 20:12 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 16:18 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-11 10:24 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Martin Shobe <martin.shobe@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-11 14:36 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2014-05-25 16:44 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-10 12:47 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 16:05 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-10 13:34 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 16:59 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-10 16:01 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-14 21:24 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-14 21:36 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-15 05:26 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-15 07:18 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2014-04-18 09:01 -0700
                Please ignore trolls Noob <root@127.0.0.1> - 2014-04-09 15:26 +0200
                Re: Please ignore trolls David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-09 15:38 +0200
                Re: Please ignore trolls James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-09 12:02 -0400
                Re: Please ignore trolls Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-09 19:18 +0000
                Re: Please ignore trolls "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-10 20:18 +0100
                Re: Please ignore trolls James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-10 15:49 -0400
                Re: Please ignore trolls gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-04-10 20:14 +0000
                Re: Please ignore trolls "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-11 14:35 +0100
                Re: Please ignore trolls Malcolm McLean <malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> - 2014-04-11 07:35 -0700
                Re: Please ignore trolls "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-11 15:51 +0100
                Re: Please ignore trolls Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2014-04-12 15:48 +0000
                Re: Please ignore trolls Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-10 21:16 +0000
                Re: Please ignore trolls "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-12 15:35 +0100
                Re: Please ignore trolls Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-09 08:03 -0700
                Re: Please ignore trolls gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2014-04-09 15:25 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-04-09 21:28 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-10 08:39 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2014-04-09 23:38 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2014-04-10 02:07 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-09 05:18 +0000
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-09 08:05 -0700
            Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-07 08:33 -0700
              Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-07 17:16 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-07 11:07 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-08 09:49 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2014-04-08 20:33 +1200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-08 12:31 +0200
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-08 21:59 -0400
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-08 07:37 -0700
              Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-04-08 08:35 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Seungbeom Kim <musiphil@bawi.org> - 2014-04-08 11:30 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-08 23:46 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-04-08 18:28 -0500
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Seungbeom Kim <musiphil@bawi.org> - 2014-04-08 17:21 -0700
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-04-09 09:07 +0100
                Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2014-04-09 07:22 -0400
      Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2014-04-06 16:25 -0700
        Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2014-04-07 02:22 +0200
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2014-04-06 06:08 +0000
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> - 2014-04-06 08:54 +0200
  Re: Is enum a suitable way to implement a "local define?" partremmaps@gmail.com - 2014-04-07 23:48 -0700

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