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Groups > comp.lang.c > #136176

Re: >< swap operator

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: >< swap operator
Date 2018-10-04 11:53 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <877eiyq8y9.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <pp39t5$jve$1@dont-email.me> <87sh1mqvmt.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <pp3v0o$tlm$1@dont-email.me> <87muruqto8.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <d6eae0d7-cc2d-43d0-aa94-c9629f357b92@googlegroups.com>

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"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 11:26:07 PM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
>> > Because >< is an operator.  It is evaluated left-to-right as if
>> > you had used a + b + c.
>> 
>> But >< is not like +.  It is more like = where one side must be an
>> lvalue, except with >< both side must be.  Thus (a >< b) >< c only makes
>> sense if the expression a >< b is itself an lvalue.
>
> It's an arbitrary choice.  >< returns the left side, ><= returns
> the right side, but apart from moving data in two directions, it's
> otherwise identical to other operators.

I don't think you know what an lvalue is.  "returns the left side" is
ambiguous in a context where you seem to be talking about ordinary
values and I am talking about lvalues.

>> You can't assign to the result of an expression that yields an ordinary
>> value (like (a + b) = c) and you should not be able to swap c with the
>> result of an expression that yields an ordinary value.  That's why I
>> pointed out that a >< b should really be an lvalue expression, not an
>> ordinary one.
>
> I understand your point.

No, I really don't think you do.  Can you at least see how a >< b >< c
rotates the contents of a, b and c if >< is an lvalue expression?  If
not (and you certainly claimed before that it doesn't) then you are not
seeing what I am suggesting.

> I disagree. I think >< and ><= are
> special case operators, but traditional in all other ways.

I am not sure what it is you disagree with.  Why, if you favour having a
swap operator, would you not want a >< b >< c to have a useful meaning?
You can still use a >< b in other expressions (since lvalues "decay" to
ordinary values).

If you also make ><= be an lvalue expression you get a ><= b ><= c being
a rotate in the other direction.  What is there to disagree with here?

(By the way, if I were going to provide both operators I'd make them
mirrors of each other, for example =>< and ><=.  However, I don't think
there is much value in having both.)

Here it is in C++ using << and >> for the two versions of swap.  You can
do it with a swap function in C, but (a) I wanted to illustrate it with
operators, (b) in C you have to use pointers so there is no direct
analogue of the lvalue.

template <class T> class Swappable {
   T content;
public:
   Swappable(T v) : content(v) {}
   operator T (){ return content; }

   Swappable &operator<<(Swappable &s) {
      T tmp = content; content = s.content; s.content = tmp;
      return *this;
   }
   Swappable &operator>>(Swappable &s) {
      T tmp = content; content = s.content; s.content = tmp;
      return s;
   }
};

#include <iostream>

int main()
{
   Swappable<int> a = 1, b = 2, c = 3;
   std::cout << a << " " << b << " " << c << "\n";

   a << b << c;
   std::cout << a << " " << b << " " << c << "\n";
   a << b << c;
   std::cout << a << " " << b << " " << c << "\n";
   a << b << c;
   std::cout << a << " " << b << " " << c << "\n";

   a >> b >> c;
   std::cout << a << " " << b << " " << c << "\n";
   a >> b >> c;
   std::cout << a << " " << b << " " << c << "\n";
   a >> b >> c;
   std::cout << a << " " << b << " " << c << "\n";
}

Do you see what I mean now?

Note that the only difference is which "side" is referenced in the
return.  Note also that you get the same results, in both cases, if you
bracket the expression the "other" way: a << (b << c).

Since this is comp.lang.c, here it is in C.  But with no operators and
using explicit pointers to "fake" the lvalue, it's all much less clear.


int *swapl(int *a, int *b) { int t = *a; *a = *b; *b = t; return a; }
int *swapr(int *a, int *b) { int t = *a; *a = *b; *b = t; return b; }

#include <stdio.h>

int main(void)
{
     int a = 1, b = 2, c = 3;
     printf("%d %d %d\n", a, b, c);

     swapl(swapl(&a, &b), &c);
     printf("%d %d %d\n", a, b, c);
     swapl(swapl(&a, &b), &c);
     printf("%d %d %d\n", a, b, c);
     swapl(swapl(&a, &b), &c);
     printf("%d %d %d\n", a, b, c);

     swapr(swapr(&a, &b), &c);
     printf("%d %d %d\n", a, b, c);
     swapr(swapr(&a, &b), &c);
     printf("%d %d %d\n", a, b, c);
     swapr(swapr(&a, &b), &c);
     printf("%d %d %d\n", a, b, c);
}

-- 
Ben.

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Thread

>< swap operator skybuck2000@hotmail.com - 2018-08-13 12:53 -0700
  Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-08-13 16:05 -0400
  Re: >< swap operator fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-08-13 13:46 -0700
    Re: >< swap operator Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-08-14 11:19 +0300
    Re: >< swap operator skybuck2000@hotmail.com - 2018-08-14 06:16 -0700
      Re: >< swap operator bart4858@gmail.com - 2018-08-14 07:50 -0700
        Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-08-14 16:59 +0200
          Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-08-14 10:46 -0700
            Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-08-14 20:03 +0200
              Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-08-14 11:37 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-08-14 21:16 +0200
          Re: >< swap operator fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 11:32 -0700
          Re: >< swap operator bart4858@gmail.com - 2018-08-14 16:24 -0700
            Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-08-15 11:32 +0200
        Re: >< swap operator skybuck2000@hotmail.com - 2018-10-01 07:46 -0700
          Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 05:20 -0700
            Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-02 13:58 +0100
              Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-02 14:08 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 09:16 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-02 15:35 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 09:43 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-02 10:51 -0700
              Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 09:08 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-02 15:26 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 10:52 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-02 17:57 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:27 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 11:52 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-02 20:48 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 15:56 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:05 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-02 13:26 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-02 21:36 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-02 13:47 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-03 11:14 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 16:37 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-02 22:02 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 17:16 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-03 11:25 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-03 10:52 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-03 14:29 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 05:52 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-03 21:31 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 16:47 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-04 03:43 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 22:47 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-04 04:25 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 20:44 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-04 11:53 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 05:15 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-04 13:48 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 10:56 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-04 17:47 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 11:01 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-04 22:15 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 16:19 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-04 21:42 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 15:01 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-04 23:59 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-05 09:54 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-05 18:03 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-05 21:08 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-05 20:31 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-10-05 15:59 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-05 21:18 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-06 03:51 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-06 12:19 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-06 19:49 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-07 12:25 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-07 14:19 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 06:56 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-07 16:30 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-09 13:17 +0200
                C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-09 13:07 +0000
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-09 14:27 +0100
                Re: C idioms Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-10 00:05 +0100
                Re: C idioms Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-10 02:03 +0100
                Re: C idioms Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-11 01:05 +0100
                Re: C idioms Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-11 02:09 +0100
                Re: C idioms Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-11 12:39 +0100
                Re: C idioms Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-11 16:24 +0100
                Re: C idioms scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-11 15:55 +0000
                Re: C idioms Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-11 09:42 -0700
                Re: C idioms Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-11 19:23 +0200
                Re: C idioms jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu - 2018-10-11 11:11 -0700
                Re: C idioms Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-11 12:05 -0700
                Re: C idioms Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-11 17:53 +0100
                Re: C idioms Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-11 10:38 -0700
                Re: C idioms Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-12 00:14 +0100
                Re: C idioms Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-11 19:26 +0100
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-09 16:38 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-09 15:23 +0000
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-09 20:31 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-09 20:18 +0100
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-09 22:11 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-09 20:50 +0000
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-09 22:58 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-09 22:34 +0100
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-10 08:10 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu - 2018-10-09 14:45 -0700
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-10 08:07 +0200
                Hmmm... (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-10 07:56 +0000
                Re: Hmmm... (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-10 10:32 +0200
                Re: Hmmm... (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2018-10-10 13:44 +0000
                Re: Hmmm... (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-10 14:52 +0000
                Re: Hmmm... (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-10 17:47 +0200
                Re: Hmmm... (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-10 17:18 +0200
                Re: Hmmm... (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-10 15:22 +0000
                Re: Hmmm... (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-10 23:58 +0200
                Re: Hmmm... Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-10-10 07:51 -0600
                Re: Hmmm... gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-10 14:53 +0000
                Re: Hmmm... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-10 17:21 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-10 12:57 +0000
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-10-10 12:29 -0400
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-11 00:07 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-09 14:50 -0700
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-10 08:13 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-10 12:56 +0000
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-10 15:55 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-10 15:17 +0100
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-10 14:49 +0000
                Fall-through in switch statements... (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-10 14:59 +0000
                Re: Fall-through in switch statements... (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-10 16:09 +0100
                Re: Fall-through in switch statements... (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) nobody@example.org (Scott) - 2018-10-10 17:29 +0000
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-10 16:01 +0100
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-10 17:29 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-10 17:55 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-10 17:11 +0100
                Re: C idioms Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-10 23:15 +0100
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-11 00:16 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-10 23:23 +0100
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-10 16:31 -0700
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-10 15:32 -0700
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-10 16:24 -0700
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-11 10:52 +0200
                Re: C idioms Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-10-10 09:59 -0600
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-10 17:26 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-10 14:48 +0000
                Return values of fork() (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-10 14:51 +0000
                Re: Return values of fork() (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-10 15:20 +0000
                You know that and I know that, but ... (Was: Return values of fork() (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator))) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-10 15:28 +0000
                Re: You know that and I know that, but ... (Was: Return values of fork() (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator))) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-11 00:23 +0200
                Re: You know that and I know that, but ... (Was: Return values of fork() (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator))) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-11 13:22 +0000
                Re: You know that and I know that, but ... (Was: Return values of fork() (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator))) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-11 15:58 +0200
                Re: You know that and I know that, but ... (Was: Return values of fork() (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator))) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-11 14:17 +0000
                Re: You know that and I know that, but ... (Was: Return values of fork() (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator))) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-11 16:42 +0200
                Re: You know that and I know that, but ... (Was: Return values of fork() (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator))) Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-11 16:53 +0200
                Re: You know that and I know that, but ... (Was: Return values of fork() (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator))) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-11 20:11 +0200
                Re: Return values of fork() (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-11 00:20 +0200
                Re: Return values of fork() (Was: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator)) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-10 16:15 -0700
                Re: Return values of fork() Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-10-11 14:42 -0600
                Re: C idioms Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-10-09 16:18 -0600
                Re: C idioms gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-09 22:28 +0000
                Re: C idioms scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-10 12:58 +0000
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-10-09 07:48 -0700
                Re: C idioms Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-09 16:42 +0100
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-09 19:40 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-10-09 12:38 -0700
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-09 23:41 +0200
                Re: C idioms (Was: >< swap operator) Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-09 19:38 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-07 15:04 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-07 16:37 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-07 16:58 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 12:17 -0400
                Grammar police! (Was: >< swap operator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-07 20:37 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu - 2018-10-07 09:31 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-07 18:09 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu - 2018-10-07 14:05 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-07 22:35 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-08 02:56 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-08 10:48 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-08 12:09 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2018-10-08 16:00 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-08 17:44 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-08 10:39 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-08 20:08 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-09 11:22 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-09 09:25 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-09 20:43 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-09 20:15 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-09 22:26 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2018-10-08 21:09 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 15:18 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-08 07:55 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-09 11:24 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu - 2018-10-08 07:19 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-08 16:26 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu - 2018-10-10 10:59 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-08 19:53 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-10-07 18:00 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-07 17:10 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-08 01:25 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-08 02:51 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-08 11:29 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2018-10-08 04:41 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu - 2018-10-08 07:56 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-08 08:36 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-08 17:34 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-08 21:35 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-08 22:00 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-09 00:47 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-09 01:11 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-09 02:47 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator mark.bluemel@gmail.com - 2018-10-09 00:49 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-09 11:28 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-09 13:00 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-08 10:28 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-08 10:49 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-10-07 20:00 -0600
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-06 13:07 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-05 23:35 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 03:49 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-06 16:18 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-06 14:48 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-06 12:53 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-07 16:38 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2018-10-07 15:56 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-07 16:53 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 17:07 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-07 17:24 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-08 01:30 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2018-10-07 19:12 -0600
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-06 18:26 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-06 19:41 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-06 13:05 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 02:24 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-07 12:41 +0200
                100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-06 00:22 +0000
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-06 01:55 +0100
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 03:58 -0700
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-06 11:51 +0000
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-06 13:09 +0100
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 05:26 -0700
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 05:40 -0700
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-06 12:46 +0000
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2018-10-06 12:46 +0000
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-06 12:49 +0000
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 06:27 -0700
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-07 12:47 +0000
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 09:03 -0400
                Re: 100% of the user base... (Was: >< swap operator) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-07 16:47 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-05 10:17 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-05 09:20 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-05 10:58 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-05 12:09 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-05 03:11 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 07:56 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-05 14:25 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 08:39 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-05 15:47 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-05 17:30 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 11:41 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-05 17:56 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 12:00 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-10-05 12:34 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 12:48 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-10-05 13:55 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-05 11:20 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 14:45 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2018-10-05 21:39 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 08:51 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-11-25 14:18 -0800
                Re: >< swap operator Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-10-05 15:46 +0300
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 06:05 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 06:16 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-05 15:09 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 10:18 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-10-05 17:32 +0300
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 10:34 -0400
                Of course it is crazy! (Was: >< swap operator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-05 15:17 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-05 18:30 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 14:48 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 15:06 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-05 13:55 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 06:14 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-05 16:18 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 10:21 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-05 17:27 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-05 15:26 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 10:28 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-05 14:46 +0000
                When pigs fly... (Was: >< swap operator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-05 16:10 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2018-10-05 17:35 +0300
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 10:46 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-05 15:15 +0000
                6K years??? (Was: >< swap operator) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2018-10-05 13:20 +0000
                Re: 6K years??? (Was: >< swap operator) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 09:28 -0400
                Re: 6K years??? (Was: >< swap operator) Wouter Verhelst <w@uter.be> - 2018-10-05 17:53 +0200
                Re: 6K years??? (Was: >< swap operator) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 11:56 -0400
                Re: 6K years??? (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-05 18:17 +0200
                Re: 6K years??? (Was: >< swap operator) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 09:21 -0700
                Re: 6K years??? (Was: >< swap operator) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-05 18:50 +0200
                Re: 6K years??? (Was: >< swap operator) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 12:52 -0400
                Re: 6K years??? (Was: >< swap operator) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 13:05 -0400
                Re: 6K years??? (Was: >< swap operator) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 03:42 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-05 15:59 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-06 03:45 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-04 11:22 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-04 20:35 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-04 13:28 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-10-04 17:59 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2018-10-04 09:56 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 06:03 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-03 14:37 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 09:51 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-03 15:39 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 10:05 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 10:09 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-03 16:22 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 10:29 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-03 20:52 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 14:57 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-02 16:06 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-03 00:09 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2018-10-02 19:21 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-10-03 11:21 +0200
                Re: >< swap operator Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:43 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-02 21:01 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-02 14:29 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-02 22:37 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-10-03 05:07 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-02 21:01 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 16:06 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-02 21:45 +0100
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 17:09 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 16:11 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 16:22 -0400
                Re: >< swap operator Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:17 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 13:24 -0700
                Re: >< swap operator scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-10-02 15:04 +0000
                Re: >< swap operator Niles Rogoff <eternal-september@niles.xyz> - 2018-10-03 18:28 +0000
  Re: >< swap operator Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-08-14 11:50 -0700
  Re: >< swap operator Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-08-14 17:07 -0700
    Re: >< swap operator fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 02:22 -0700
      Re: >< swap operator fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 02:34 -0700
        Re: >< swap operator fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 03:09 -0700
      Re: >< swap operator fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 03:24 -0700
        Re: >< swap operator fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 04:51 -0700
          Re: >< swap operator fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 05:06 -0700
      Re: >< swap operator Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2018-08-15 04:21 -0700
        Re: >< swap operator Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2018-08-15 14:43 +0100
          Re: >< swap operator fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2018-08-15 07:08 -0700
          Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-08-15 16:52 +0100
        Re: >< swap operator Ike Naar <ike@iceland.freeshell.org> - 2018-08-15 15:51 +0000
  Re: >< swap operator John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2018-10-01 14:59 -0700
    Re: >< swap operator Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 03:06 -0700
    Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-02 11:43 +0100
      Re: >< swap operator John Bode <jfbode1029@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 07:27 -0700
        Re: >< swap operator Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2018-10-02 15:43 +0100
          Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-02 11:01 -0700
        Re: >< swap operator Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2018-10-02 10:54 -0700
          Re: >< swap operator Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2018-10-02 12:39 -0700
  Re: >< swap operator skybuck2000@hotmail.com - 2018-10-10 18:10 -0700
  Re: >< swap operator skybuck2000@hotmail.com - 2018-10-10 18:24 -0700

csiph-web