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Groups > comp.lang.c > #63431

Re: sizeof(arr[0])

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: sizeof(arr[0])
Date 2015-06-17 17:58 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87381qtgpc.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (15 earlier) <8f872f45-ee8a-4ab8-a4af-b50f6a450929@googlegroups.com> <874mm6wt9i.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <0749ad55-972a-408a-b605-55213cd73225@googlegroups.com> <87wpz2tmt0.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <0033c5c1-b015-4a3f-9011-1f44d796d5da@googlegroups.com>

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"Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:

> On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 at 10:46:44 AM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
>> > On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 at 5:58:56 AM UTC-4, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> >> "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> writes:
>> >> > I would argue that "return(42);" does remove ambiguity over "return
>> >> > 42;".
>> >> 
>> >> So your answer to "what possible ambiguity is there in return 42; that
>> >> is dispelled by writing return(42);" is "none", but you would, none the
>> >> less, "argue that return(42); does remove ambiguity over return 42;".
>> >
>> > I can see how that would be confusing. I explained it in a later post.
>> > "None" there means "below threshold," but not exactly 0, just not enough
>> > to warrant any need for parenthesis. However, using parenthesis does
>> > make it clearer.
>> 
>> But neither "none" nor "none above the threshold" (whatever that is)
>> answers the question to which "none" what the answer.
>
> What is the chance of rain today?
> None.
> Really?
> Yes, the weather forecast says no change of rain. Sunny all day.
> What about meteors?
> What?
> Suppose a meteor comes by and alters the atmosphere in some way?
> I suppose...
>
> What about earthquakes? Volcanoes? Something that we hadn't taken
> into account in our initial assessment of weather analysis?
>
> I see your point. Okay, the chance of rain is "None," which could
> of course mean there is a chance of rain in certain circumstances,
> or if something unlikely happens.
>
> So is it really "None?"
> No, not really. But for all practical purposes, yes. Yes it is.
> I understand.

Eh?  In what way is return(42); like weather?  Saying there is no
ambiguity does not mean there is none, barring asteroids, it means none.
The analogy does not help me one bit -- i still have no idea what you
meant to say.

If all that was to illustrate the difference between the first answer,
"none", and what you meant "none above threshold" then it was not
needed.  I get the difference -- I just don't know what the threshold is
(but I also don't care so there's no need to explain it).

>> What is the
>> ambiguity you spoke of that is removed by adding the parentheses?
>
> It just conveys completely that the value 42 is being input into the
> return, whereas "return 42;" probably conveys that meaning, and it
> would be natural to conclude it does, but there's no way to be 100%
> sure. It could be something like RET 42 in x86 assembly, which returns
> and pops 42 bytes off the stack in the process (though I suppose one
> could argue that return(42); could do the same thing).

Sorry, but that's a nonsense justification.  Someone might see the
return(42); form as pushing an argument ans executing a call
instruction.  As you suggest, I can make up as many just-so stories as
you can.

>> I get
>> that you might simply have misspoken and meant to say "I like them" or
>> something like that, but you spoke of and ambiguity being removed, and I
>> can't see one, even if it is "below" some threshold -- I can't see it at
>> all -- nada.
>
> That's okay.  Chocolate.  Vanilla.  They both exist for a reason.

As I said, if you meant it's just a personal preference I'm OK with
that, but instead I wasted time trying to find out what ambiguity the
()s remove (despite the clue that you said there was none on one
occasion).  This last remark suggest is is simply a personal choice, but
above you try to offer a justification for it.

<snip>
> On the whole, I use parentheses far more places than they're needed
> by syntax,

Fine, but you might want to reconsider this remark:

  "I use return(x); everywhere in source code."

<snip>
-- 
Ben.

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Thread

sizeof(arr[0]) kuznecov.alexey@gmail.com - 2015-06-10 12:38 -0700
  Re: sizeof(arr[0]) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-10 16:00 -0400
    Re: sizeof(arr[0]) kuznecov.alexey@gmail.com - 2015-06-10 14:53 -0700
  Re: sizeof(arr[0]) kuznecov.alexey@gmail.com - 2015-06-10 13:11 -0700
  Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-10 21:21 +0100
    Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-10 22:08 +0100
      Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Andrew Cooper <amc96@cam.ac.uk> - 2015-06-11 00:27 +0100
        Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-11 00:34 +0100
          Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-11 00:38 +0100
          Re: writing code for people who don't know the language (was: sizeof(arr[0])) Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2015-06-10 21:16 -0400
          Re: writing code for people who don't know the language Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-11 02:35 +0100
            Re: writing code for people who don't know the language Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-11 11:16 +0100
          Re: writing code for people who don't know the language Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-11 11:29 +0100
            Re: writing code for people who don't know the language gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-06-11 11:43 +0000
          Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Paul N <gw7rib@aol.com> - 2015-06-14 13:13 -0700
            Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-06-14 17:52 -0700
          Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-06-15 14:26 -0400
            Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 19:34 +0100
              Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-06-15 14:55 -0400
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Melzzzzz <melz@zzzzz.com> - 2015-06-15 20:59 +0200
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-15 20:11 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-06-15 15:22 -0400
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 09:51 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 10:51 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-16 19:14 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 11:43 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-16 20:03 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-16 19:15 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 11:34 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-16 20:28 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-16 15:42 -0400
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-16 13:35 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-16 16:59 -0400
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Dr Nick <nospam-4@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2015-06-16 22:05 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-16 14:27 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Dr Nick <nospam-4@temporary-address.org.uk> - 2015-06-17 07:07 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-17 01:22 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu> - 2015-06-16 19:45 +0000
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 13:03 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-17 10:58 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 05:58 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-17 15:46 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 08:14 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-17 17:58 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 10:07 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 10:09 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 10:46 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-17 11:13 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Nathan Wagner <nw@hydaspes.if.org> - 2015-06-18 07:14 +0000
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-18 09:54 +0200
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 05:19 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-17 10:53 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 11:17 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 13:59 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2015-06-18 13:41 +1200
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-18 10:04 +0200
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-16 13:18 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-16 21:30 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 13:53 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 13:43 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-16 21:52 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 14:01 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-16 23:49 +0200
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 14:58 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-17 14:10 +0200
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-17 13:20 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-16 14:16 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 14:39 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-06-16 18:38 +0000
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-16 11:45 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-16 13:22 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2015-06-16 21:25 +0000
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-16 11:05 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2015-06-16 14:15 -0400
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 10:07 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-17 11:16 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 10:22 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2015-06-18 10:42 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 11:41 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-06-16 00:12 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-16 10:12 +0100
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Philip Lantz <prl@canterey.us> - 2015-06-16 09:12 -0700
                Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-16 17:32 +0100
    Re: sizeof(arr[0]) kuznecov.alexey@gmail.com - 2015-06-10 14:56 -0700
      Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-06-10 23:53 +0100
      Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Bartc <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-06-11 00:33 +0100
        Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-11 00:37 +0100
  Re: sizeof(arr[0]) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 06:05 -0700
    [OT] The number 42 (was Re: sizeof(arr[0])) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-17 16:07 +0200
      Re: [OT] The number 42 (was Re: sizeof(arr[0])) "Rick C. Hodgin" <rick.c.hodgin@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 08:23 -0700
        Re: [OT] The number 42 (was Re: sizeof(arr[0])) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-18 10:21 +0200
      Re: [OT] The number 42 (was Re: sizeof(arr[0])) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 10:35 -0700
        Re: [OT] The number 42 (was Re: sizeof(arr[0])) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-06-18 10:18 +0200
          Re: [OT] The number 42 (was Re: sizeof(arr[0])) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-18 10:08 +0100
    Re: sizeof(arr[0]) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-06-17 15:13 +0100
      Re: sizeof(arr[0]) raltbos@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) - 2015-06-18 20:38 +0000

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