Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #153445

Re: high level language idea

From	Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: high level language idea
Date	2015-10-28 08:04 -0700
Organization	Wheeler&Wheeler
Message-ID	<8737wv5915.fsf@lhwserver.localdomain> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <0c6dnSNsV87bp7HLnZ2dnUU7-WmdnZ2d@giganews.com> <80d5c94e-13ec-4e05-9724-fa67c2993f26@googlegroups.com> <87r3kgfhxa.fsf@lhwserver.localdomain> <87mvv4ffzu.fsf@lhwserver.localdomain> <n0oa0t$4vo$1@dont-email.me>

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Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> writes:
> I assume you did this optimization of arm movement manually. Too bad
> you didn't automate the process into something you could pass on to
> customers.

re:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#35 high level language idea
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#36 high level language idea
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#38 high level language idea
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#39 high level language idea
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#40 high level language idea

started with re-arrainging cards in a card tray ... stage2 was over
thousand cards ... mostly based on my understanding of os/360
internals. then got a load trace ... for PDS library member names
... and reorganizing cards got more sophisticated.

a decade later ... at SJR ... did modification of VM370 to collect arm
movement data ... both VM370 operations and activity of virtual
machines. It was initially used in cache simulator ... looking at types
of caching and caching strategies. One of the things it showed that most
efficient use of fixed amount of electronic cache was global cache
rather than partitioned into controller or device level caches.

The work also found that emerging cache technology started to take care
of highest use common system data ... and physical location clustering
started to focus on collections of application data that tended to be
used together in bursty sequences ... as in daily, weekly, monthly
intervals. Also highlighted differentiating between high re-use data
patterns and purely sequential use data patterns where caching provided
little benefit (and caching sequential use data could degrade throughput
by replacing repeated high-use data).

There was work on doing efficient real-time reduction of the data ...
so it might be used by systems for allocation strategies as well as
supporting dynamic moving data for better throughput.

about the same time there was a different internally developed program
MDREORG that relied on standard VM370 PER collected information. It was
used by (internal) installations moving from 3330&3350 to 3380
configurations. It would define load balancing across 3380 drives and
ordering within 3380 drives to optimize throughput. One of the things it
showed, if you completely filled a fewer number of 3380 drives from 3350
drive configuration, there would be worse performance. The throughput
break-even was filling 3380 drive 80% full of data from 3350
configuration (which was still cheaper than 3350 configuration). For
better performance needed to have 3380 at less than 80% full of data
from 3350 configuration (and leaving the rest of the space empty or
using for very infrequently used data).

semi-related ... posts mentioning getting to play disk engineer
in bldgs. 14&15
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#disk
and posts mentioning multi-track search/CKD versus fixed-block/FBA
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#dask

some past refs about using monitoring/trace information for improving
throughput
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006y.html#35 The Future of CPUs: What's After Multi-Core?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007.html#3 The Future of CPUs: What's After Multi-Core?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008l.html#65 Crippleware: hardware examples
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#18 How to analyze a volume's access by dataset
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#70 Speed of Old Hard Disks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#71 Speed of Old Hard Disks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#47 nested LRU schemes
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#11 relative mainframe speeds, was What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?

semi-related, ... late 70s & early 80s, I was making comments that
relative system throughput of disks was significantly declining ... by
the early 80s, the relative system throughput of disks were an order of
magnitude less than the mid/late 60s (when I was doing the careful
os/360 sysgens) ... aka processors got 40-50 times faster, disks got 3-5
times faster.

at one point, disk division executives took exception to the statements
and assigned the division performance organization to refute them. After
several weeks, the came back and effectively said that I had slightly
understated the problem. They then respin it into SHARE presentation
on how to configure disks for improving throughput. some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#18 AS/400 and MVS - clarification please
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#46 AS/400 and MVS - clarification please
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006f.html#3 using 3390 mod-9s
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006o.html#68 DASD Response Time (on antique 3390?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007s.html#5 Poster of computer hardware events?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007s.html#9 Poster of computer hardware events?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#88 CPU time differences for the same job
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009g.html#71 308x Processors - was "Mainframe articles"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#7 My Vintage Dream PC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#34 A Complete History Of Mainframe Computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009k.html#52 Hercules; more information requested
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009l.html#67 ACP, One of the Oldest Open Source Apps
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010c.html#1 "The Naked Mainframe" (Forbes Security Article)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#70 25 reasons why hardware is still hot at IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#31 Wax ON Wax OFF -- Tuning VSAM considerations
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#32 OS idling
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#33 History of Hard-coded Offsets
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010n.html#18 Mainframe Slang terms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010q.html#30 IBM Historic computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#35 CKD DASD
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#61 Speed of Old Hard Disks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#1 Multiple Virtual Memory
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011g.html#59 Is the magic and romance killed by Windows (and Linux)?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#5 Why are organizations sticking with mainframes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#32 Has anyone successfully migrated off mainframes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012b.html#73 Tape vs DASD - Speed/time/CPU utilization
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012e.html#39 A bit of IBM System 360 nostalgia
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#62 ISO documentation of IBM 3375, 3380 and 3390 track format
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#72 'Free Unix!': The world-changing proclamation made 30 years agotoday
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#49 Mac at 30: A love/hate relationship from the support front
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014l.html#90 What's the difference between doing performance in a mainframe environment versus doing in others
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#87 Death of spinning disk?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#0 Miniskirts and mainframes

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Thread

high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-20 17:47 -0400
  Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-21 01:09 +0000
    Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-21 14:44 -0500
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:15 -0700
  Re: high level language idea davidmylastname@acm.org (David Griffith) - 2015-10-21 01:16 +0000
    Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:26 -0400
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 12:13 -0700
        Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 15:23 -0400
  Re: high level language idea bert <bert.hutchings@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-21 03:53 -0700
    Re: high level language idea rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2015-10-21 13:47 +0000
      Re: high level language idea "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:58 +0100
        Re: high level language idea Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-10-21 10:34 -0400
        Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-21 16:43 +0000
      Re: high level language idea rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2015-10-21 14:46 +0000
    Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 14:29 -0400
      Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-10-21 14:19 -0500
        Re: high level language idea Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-10-21 15:24 -0400
          Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2015-10-22 14:13 -0500
            Re: high level language idea "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 09:55 -0500
              Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-23 11:42 -0400
                Re: high level language idea "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-10-23 11:48 -0500
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-23 10:47 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-24 21:24 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-24 21:14 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-25 11:31 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-25 18:13 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-23 11:20 -0700
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-23 11:45 -0700
              Re: high level language idea Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2015-10-24 21:11 -0500
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 07:40 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-27 08:30 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-27 09:11 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 12:52 -0400
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 10:22 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 14:37 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-27 19:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 17:46 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 01:22 +0000
                Re: high level language idea jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-28 12:58 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-28 13:59 +0000
                Re: high level language idea jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-29 13:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-29 14:28 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 05:06 +1100
                Re: high level language idea pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-29 19:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-29 14:21 -0600
                Re: high level language idea pechter@S20.pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2015-10-29 19:50 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 07:33 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 16:58 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 10:10 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 20:08 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 13:58 -0700
                Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-27 15:53 -0500
                Re: high level language idea - TTF Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 17:11 -0400
                Re: high level language idea - TTF scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-28 13:24 +0000
                Re: high level language idea - TTF hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-28 07:37 -0700
                Re: high level language idea - TTF Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 16:58 +0000
                Re: high level language idea - TTF Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-28 15:10 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 01:22 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-28 08:04 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 11:34 -0400
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 10:14 -0700
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 14:30 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-27 19:29 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 16:57 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-27 21:50 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2015-10-27 17:58 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-28 09:04 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2015-10-28 09:42 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-10-28 14:55 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2015-10-28 15:02 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-28 19:15 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2015-10-28 13:25 -0600
                Re: high level language idea Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-28 17:54 -0400
                Re: high level language idea Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-10-28 19:19 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 21:09 +0000
                Re: high level language idea scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2015-10-28 13:36 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-10-28 17:54 +0000
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-28 20:08 +0000
                Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-28 17:54 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-13 16:05 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-13 17:20 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-11-15 08:14 -0500
                Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-27 19:55 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-27 18:00 -0700
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 12:21 -0700
        Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 15:25 -0400
        Re: high level language idea "Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> - 2015-10-21 17:14 -0400
          Re: high level language idea jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-10-22 12:51 +0000
        Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-21 17:56 -0400
      Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-21 19:43 +0000
        Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:09 -0700
          Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-22 02:52 +0000
          Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-23 16:04 -0500
    Re: high level language idea Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2015-10-28 20:19 -0400
  Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 07:35 -0700
    Re: high level language idea Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-10-21 19:43 +0000
      Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:00 -0700
        Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-21 13:35 -0700
          Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-21 13:50 -0700
            Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-21 17:56 -0400
              Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-22 07:22 -0700
                Re: high level language idea John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-10-24 00:42 +0000
                Re: high level language idea hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2015-10-24 20:26 -0700
                Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-25 18:36 -0500
            Re: high level language idea Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-10-21 15:31 -0700
            Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-20 17:17 -0500
        Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-20 17:00 -0500
          Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-11-20 22:20 +0000
            Re: high level language idea Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-21 08:35 -0500
      Re: high level language idea "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-10-23 16:00 -0500
        Re: high level language idea Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-10-23 21:07 +0000
        Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-11-20 17:31 -0500
          Re: high level language idea Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-11-25 11:28 -0800
            Re: high level language idea Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2015-12-22 14:00 -0500
              Re: high level language idea Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-12-22 11:43 -0800

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