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Groups > comp.mobile.ipad > #30033

Re: IPad and

From Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.mobile.ipad
Subject Re: IPad and
Date 2014-01-20 19:38 -0800
Organization Rare
Message-ID <7iwqhuatrx.fsf@ethel.the.log> (permalink)
References <lbfpea$mk8$1@dont-email.me> <lbke44$j8h$1@dont-email.me> <200120141931414748%star@sky.net> <kcob36up6j.fsf@ethel.the.log> <200120142219181103%star@sky.net>

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Davoud <star@sky.net> writes:

> Doug Anderson:
> > ...Now that we are at iOS 7, there are
> > many users, like me, who get a great deal of use out of our iPads
> > without using iTunes.
> > 
> > I have nothing _against_ using iTunes - it just doesn't come up in the
> > uses I make of my iPad.  What are those?
> > 
> > -answering email
> > -checking calendar
> > -browsing the web
> > -reading the New Yorker 
> > -reading books through the Amazon app
> > -listening to podcasts through Downcast
> > -doign NYT crossword puzzle
> > -streaming video from Netflix and other places
> > -writing notes in the Notes app.
> > -taking notes in meetings in uPad.
> > -culling photos imported from my camera.
> 
> I can't do the following without iTunes:
> Backing up my iOS thingies. This is big, IMO.
> Syncing photos from Aperture. This is important to me.
> Syncing music from the iTunes Store. This is important to me.
> Syncing videos from the iTunes Store. This is important to me.

Sure.. I'm not asserting no one needs iTunes, nor that it is useless.

But your claim that one can only have a crippled user experience
without iTunes is wrong.  It simply depends on your usage patterns.

For exampke, I have little to back up.  My email is on a server.  My
calendar is on Google.  My contacts are on iCloud, etc. And of course
one can back up lots to iCloud.

I'm sure my situation isn't universal, but it is common.

Several of the other things you mention (stuff from the iTunes store)
can be done without interacting with iTunes on the Desktop (the OPs
objection).

I don't know about Aperture since I don't have it, but for many users,
the other four can be done without Desktop iTunes.

So again, I'm not telling you what to do.  I just disagree with your
assertion that the iPad experience without iTunes is "impoverished."


> Chacun à son goût.

Oui.  Though you didn't write before as if you meant that.

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Thread

IPad and Maurice Helwig <maurice_helwig@internode.on.net> - 2014-01-19 15:56 +1000
  Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-19 01:08 -0500
    Re: IPad and Maurice Helwig <maurice_helwig@internode.on.net> - 2014-01-19 16:39 +1000
      Re: IPad and Peter Crosland <g6jns@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-01-19 09:35 +0000
        Re: IPad and Carl Heinz <cfheinz57@charter.net> - 2014-01-19 07:49 -0800
          Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-19 15:53 -0500
            Re: IPad and Carl Heinz <cfheinz57@charter.net> - 2014-01-19 16:21 -0800
              Re: IPad and AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2014-01-19 21:17 -0500
                Re: IPad and Carl Heinz <cfheinz57@charter.net> - 2014-01-19 21:12 -0800
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-22 10:20 +0000
                Re: IPad and AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2014-01-22 11:02 -0500
                Re: IPad and Carl Heinz <cfheinz57@charter.net> - 2014-01-22 10:18 -0800
                Re: IPad and AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2014-01-22 18:19 -0500
                Re: IPad and Carl Heinz <cfheinz57@charter.net> - 2014-01-22 15:22 -0800
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-23 02:19 +0000
              Re: IPad and Ed Propes <top1sg@suddenlink.net> - 2014-01-24 00:27 -0600
      Re: IPad and Earl Grey <earl@t.net> - 2014-01-19 12:37 -0500
      Re: IPad and George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-19 11:57 -0600
      Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-19 15:52 -0500
  Re: IPad and Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-19 19:34 +1300
  Re: IPad and Maurice Helwig <maurice_helwig@internode.on.net> - 2014-01-19 17:10 +1000
  Re: IPad and David Taylor <david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk.invalid> - 2014-01-19 07:26 +0000
    Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-19 15:53 -0500
  Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-19 09:06 +0000
  Re: IPad and Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 11:11 -0500
    Re: IPad and Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-01-19 22:32 +0000
      Re: IPad and Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-01-19 19:56 -0500
        Re: IPad and Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 20:06 -0500
        Re: IPad and dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-01-20 13:24 +1100
        Re: IPad and Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-01-20 15:27 +0000
          Re: IPad and Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-21 09:05 +1300
            Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-20 15:20 -0500
              Re: IPad and Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-01-21 15:56 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-22 12:55 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-22 11:29 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-23 14:36 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-23 15:21 -0800
                Re: IPad and dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-01-24 12:55 +1300
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-23 16:08 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-23 21:50 -0500
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-23 21:50 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-23 23:52 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-24 12:13 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-24 10:28 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-24 15:59 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-24 14:11 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-24 18:47 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-24 16:39 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-24 22:11 -0500
                Re: IPad and Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-01-25 13:36 +0000
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-25 10:22 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 14:41 -0500
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-25 04:54 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 14:41 -0500
                Re: IPad and dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-01-26 20:59 +1300
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-26 14:57 -0500
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-25 10:16 +0000
                Re: IPad and Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-01-25 13:36 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 14:41 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-25 10:26 -0800
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-25 19:12 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 14:41 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-25 13:21 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 16:28 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-25 13:30 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 16:36 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-25 17:58 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 22:10 -0500
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-26 03:25 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 22:55 -0500
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-26 05:09 +0000
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-26 14:35 +0000
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-26 15:53 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-26 14:57 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-26 12:07 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-27 13:05 -0500
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-27 19:22 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:42 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-27 14:10 -0800
                Re: IPad and dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-01-28 17:31 +1300
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-27 21:27 -0800
                Re: IPad and Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-01-28 13:34 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:42 -0500
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:42 -0500
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-27 13:22 +0000
                Re: IPad and erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-25 19:46 -0600
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-25 18:02 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 22:10 -0500
                Re: IPad and DevilsPGD <boogabooga@crazyhat.net> - 2014-01-27 01:17 -0800
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-26 14:32 +0000
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-26 08:10 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-26 14:57 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-26 12:13 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-27 13:05 -0500
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-27 13:17 +0000
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-27 05:48 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-27 13:06 -0500
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-27 18:34 +0000
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-27 19:26 +0000
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-28 00:31 +0000
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-28 00:47 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:42 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-27 17:08 -0800
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-28 16:59 +0000
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-28 09:08 -0800
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-28 17:12 +0000
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-28 09:14 -0800
                Re: IPad and "zulu" <zulu.romeotangohotel@ntlworld.com> - 2014-01-28 22:13 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:42 -0500
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-29 16:02 +0000
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-29 17:39 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:42 -0500
                Re: IPad and Carl Heinz <cfheinz57@charter.net> - 2014-01-29 14:57 -0800
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-29 15:00 -0800
                Re: IPad and Carl Heinz <cfheinz57@charter.net> - 2014-01-29 15:03 -0800
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-30 13:32 +0000
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-30 15:11 +0000
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-30 08:57 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-30 13:49 -0500
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-30 13:49 -0500
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:42 -0500
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:42 -0500
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:42 -0500
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:42 -0500
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:42 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-27 14:12 -0800
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-28 00:32 +0000
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-27 17:10 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:42 -0500
                Re: IPad and erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-25 19:46 -0600
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 14:41 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-25 13:26 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 16:31 -0500
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-25 17:57 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 22:10 -0500
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-26 03:21 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 22:55 -0500
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-26 05:20 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-26 14:57 -0500
                Re: IPad and erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-25 19:44 -0600
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-25 18:01 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 22:10 -0500
                Re: IPad and Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-01-26 13:56 +0000
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-26 03:18 +0000
                Re: IPad and Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-01-26 13:56 +0000
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-26 14:37 +0000
                Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-26 15:55 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-26 14:57 -0500
                Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-27 13:23 +0000
                Re: IPad and erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-25 19:42 -0600
                Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-25 18:00 -0800
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-25 14:41 -0500
                Re: IPad and dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-01-23 10:49 +1100
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-23 14:36 -0500
                Re: IPad and dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-01-24 09:02 +1100
                Re: IPad and salgud <spamboy6547@comcast.net> - 2014-01-24 03:01 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-23 22:24 -0500
                Re: IPad and salgud <spamboy6547@comcast.net> - 2014-01-25 04:04 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-24 23:15 -0500
                Re: IPad and salgud <spamboy6547@comcast.net> - 2014-01-26 02:32 +0000
        Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-20 18:47 +0000
          Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-22 10:17 +0000
            Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-22 16:46 +0000
              Re: IPad and Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-23 02:22 +0000
                Re: IPad and Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-01-23 14:50 +0000
                Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-23 14:36 -0500
            Re: IPad and Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-01-22 21:10 +0000
      Re: IPad and Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 20:00 -0500
  Re: IPad and bj <address_is@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-19 10:48 -0600
    Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-19 15:53 -0500
      Re: IPad and bj <address_is@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-19 19:21 -0600
    Re: IPad and dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-01-20 09:13 +1100
      Re: IPad and bj <address_is@invalid.invalid> - 2014-01-19 19:21 -0600
        Re: IPad and dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-01-20 13:43 +1100
  Re: IPad and Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-19 18:59 +0000
    Re: IPad and Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 19:58 -0500
      Re: IPad and Francesco Peeters <francesco@fampeeters.com> - 2014-01-21 08:45 +0100
  Re: IPad and Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-01-19 14:30 -0500
    Re: IPad and Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 19:59 -0500
    Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 12:31 -0800
  Re: IPad and Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2014-01-19 22:32 +0000
  Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-19 18:36 -0800
  Re: IPad and Maurice Helwig <maurice_helwig@internode.on.net> - 2014-01-21 10:13 +1000
    Re: IPad and Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-01-20 19:31 -0500
      Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 16:57 -0800
        Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-20 20:30 -0500
        Re: IPad and Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2014-01-20 22:19 -0500
          Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 19:38 -0800
            Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-21 00:08 -0500
              Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 23:01 -0800
            Re: IPad and Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-21 18:30 +1300
          Re: IPad and DevilsPGD <boogabooga@crazyhat.net> - 2014-01-22 23:02 -0800
            Re: IPad and Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-24 09:34 +1300
              Re: IPad and DevilsPGD <boogabooga@crazyhat.net> - 2014-01-23 14:47 -0800
                Re: IPad and Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-24 13:52 +1300
    Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 16:31 -0800
    Re: IPad and George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-20 19:11 -0600
    Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-20 20:14 -0500
      Re: IPad and Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-20 17:16 -0800
      Re: IPad and George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-21 17:06 -0600
    Re: IPad and dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2014-01-21 14:26 +1100
      Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-21 00:09 -0500
    Re: IPad and Francesco Peeters <francesco@fampeeters.com> - 2014-01-21 08:39 +0100
      Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-21 04:46 -0500
  Re: IPad and Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> - 2014-01-22 10:12 +0000
  Re: IPad and Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@isp.spam> - 2014-01-27 12:41 -0500
    Re: IPad and nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-27 13:06 -0500

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